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Aren’t most of those schools where merit is offered to a very small handful of candidates? e.g. 10 or less?</p>
<p>Based on some of the posts in this thread, I guess an appropriate question for the super elite applicant/parent to ask is whether the school offers merit aid. If it does, they will cross it off their list.</p>
<p>Usually it is for top 1% to 5% of the class; Duke has 15, JHS 22. It depends on the school and the amounts they offer.</p>
<p>Good post TomSr (more chances for everyone else!).</p>
<p>Quote:
Originally Posted by mom2collegekids
Yes there are top 30 schools that offer merit… Vandy, WashU, Rice, USC, Duke, UChicago, Emory, Cal, UCLA and UMich are some of the Top 30 that offer merit.
Aren’t most of those schools where merit is offered to a very small handful of candidates? e.g. 10 or less?</p>
<p>That may be true about some of them. Some offer more than a small number. </p>
<p>That said, my response was to the person who indicated that Top 30 schools don’t give merit…but some do. USC gives about 200 large awards…maybe more when you count the NMFs.</p>
<p>If a person wants ASSURED merit, then he needs to look at the schools that give those and look at what the req’ts are.</p>
<p>A lot of schools have eliminated merit scholarships in favor of need based financial aid. Merit scholarships reward high test scores…there is a correlation between wealth and test scores. By putting more money into need based financial aid, colleges are better able to attract the students they want. If colleges focus on need based aid then perhaps the amazing artist with an SAT score of 2000, will be given the same opportunity to attend a school as the student with a 2350. Diversity isn’t just about race.</p>
<p>My bad, and I went to grad school at Chicago. But it’s something of an anomaly, along with Duke, in the top 10. </p>
<p>But since Duke and Chicago are both full-need schools calling it merit aid–aside from the honorifics–is a distinction without a difference. They will make up the gap–or claim to–between your EFC and total cost of attendance. </p>
<p>For schools that don’t meet full need as a rule, merit aid is a meaningful concept. </p>
<p>I suppose the questions could be: Which schools offer scholarships, and are not full need? Or, Which schools are full need?</p>
<p>*But since Duke and Chicago are both full-need schools calling it merit aid–aside from the honorifics–is a distinction without a difference. They will make up the gap–or claim to–between your EFC and total cost of attendance. *</p>
<p>True…but it is very meaningful for those who either don’t have any determined need, or their need is smaller than the award.</p>
<p>abc, It is public universities who have stopped giving out merit due to budget reasons. The percentage of private has gone up. You are also assuming that colleges had a true incentive to attract as many need based students as they can. Colleges form a class that has some diversity-all types race/economy, etc but they are also a business and they have to produce revenues to show at the board of trustees. I was actually a student trustee when I was an undergraduate and the benchmarks discussed in these meetings were not on how many needy students were getting FA. College presidents and admissions deans get bonuses when they hit certain benchmarks, ie, revenues aka full/near full paying students, acceptance yield, special hook %.</p>
<p>lol, Well I was just reading an article in usnews on why they give merit aid, and one of the reasons was:</p>
<p>“To meet expectations of rewards from the current generation of teenagers, many of whom grew up receiving trophies simply for showing up for soccer games or karate class. “This is a generation that expects to be recognized,” says Stensrud. He says he often gets calls asking for merit scholarships from C-plus students. He tells them: “You were accepted on probation and you really thought you were going to get a scholarship?””</p>
<p>^ That’s really dumb. The first part of the quote, I mean. To say that schools give merit scholarships because kids grow up with trophies is just false and really just a dumb thing to say. I hope that was taken out of context.</p>
<p>“True…but it is very meaningful for those who either don’t have any determined need, or their need is smaller than the award.”</p>
<p>It’s a number greater than zero. 24 percent of Chicago freshmen don’t have demonstrable need, according to the College Board, so some percentage do get it, and EFC doesn’t conform to everyone’s ability to pay without pain.</p>
<p>I’d also be curious about whether there’s a wall between the decision makers for the merit and and need aid. Do they play around with the numbers so as to reduce the need aid if you’re getting merit?</p>
<p>My D is getting a modest outside scholarship, and I was concerned that her full-need college would reduce their grant amount. But they have a procedure, first they reduce the loan amount (so my daughter will graduate with a reduced Stafford amoun)’ next they would let us to use it to offset our family contribution. But if the scholarship was greater than our EFC, then they would reduce her grants. I’m assuming this varies from school to school.</p>
<p>When my daughter applied to Chicago three years ago, I called and asked whether merit scholarship consideration had any connection to need and I was told that there was no connection. My impression, latichever, was that the wall exists at Chicago.</p>
<p>Similar to sports where the bottom feeder teams have to overpay for the star players to even consider joining.</p>
<p>Athletes get scholarships, schools give talent scholarships, …why shouldn’t a school give a scholarship to good students? Seems to make since to me. The Ivies do give a merit scholarship in essence. They say if you are a really great student who meets our very stringent standards, you can attend our school, and we will meet whatever financial need you may have so you can attend. Sounds kind of like a merit scholarship to me.</p>
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Not everyone who would qualify for HYPSM could actually PAY for HYPSM. And there is a whole contingent of students at a level just below HYPSM who the “bottom feeder” schools have to compete for. </p>
<p>Gotta love the cc attitude that anything out of the top 20 is a waste of oxygen. :rolleyes:</p>
<p>Agreed. Some posters are now trying to minimize the “stigma” of merit aid by claiming that their cherished elite school only offers a handful of merit scholarships.</p>
<p>Similar to sports where the bottom feeder teams have to overpay for the star players to even consider joining</p>
<p>No need to be insulting.</p>
<p>Yes, some low ranking schools are offering merit, but generally they don’t have the money to offer much or many awards. It’s the mid-level schools that have the money and the need to entice some of the top students to accept their offers. </p>
<p>and, Sylvan is right. Not everyone wants an elite school. Some can’t afford them and need other options. </p>
<p>If I remember correctly, you’re pre-med and going to go to either JHU or G’town. For pre-med, the mid-tiers would also get the job done. So, for those who want a more affordable option, merit works well.</p>
<p>I’m a sports junkie so I didn’t mean for the comment to sound insulting. I was more in line with a broad group of schools, not only top 50, but extending to even 250 schools. </p>
<p>There are going to be a handful of teams that attract the talent because of location, players,etc- top 30 schools.</p>
<p>Tier two is reserved for team that have a few good pieces (graduate programs) and are one star player away from greatness - schools 31-75.</p>
<p>Tier three is similar to two, these are up and coming but would need more pieces to surround the star to compete - schools 76-150.</p>
<p>Now you get to what I previously referred to “bottom feeder teams”, small pond big fish syndrome, above X SAT score = scholarship, etc - schools 151-250</p>
<p>Notice how tier 1 is not exclusive to HYPSM.
Is tier 1 better for a player than tier 4? Not necessarily.
Keep in mind this is only from an admissions/aid awards stand point.</p>
<p>Please tell me if I’m off base with this assessment.</p>
<p>You’ve come up with your own Tier system.</p>
<p>The former USnews method was to list 1-50 as Tier 1…and to list 51-120 as Tier 2 and so forth. </p>
<p>Tier 2 is often referred to as the “mid-tiers”.</p>
<p>Now, USNews is listing about the top 200 schools as Tier 1 (which I don’t think many accept).</p>