<p>^ lakeaweed’s analogy sorta works, but the boundary points are a little off.</p>
<p>Some schools in the top 30 and even the top 10 do offer merit aid (whether we’re taking about national universities or LACs). These include Chicago, Duke, WUSTL, JHU, Rice, Vanderbilt, USC, Wake Forest, and UNC (USNWR top 30 universities), as well as Davidson, Grinnell, Smith, Oberlin, Macalester, Colorado College, Richmond, and Bucknell (USNWR top 30 LACs).</p>
<p>Lake makes great points, all sports is are tiers of teams; playoff seeding and draft order is pretty much tiers. At least that’s what I thought he/she conveyed from his/her initial post.</p>
<p>
I think U Miami is worth mentioning in this thread (FL not Ohio)… It’s #38 and offers a LOT of merit aid. </p>
<p>
At UM, about 7 students get full rides (courtesy of the Stamps foundation which contributes to a handful of Universities across the nation), and I think maybe 75 get the Singer scholarship which covers full tuition for four years. These are per class (out of about 2k). Then there are the scholarships that they offer with admission. I believe the increments are $8k, $11k, $20k, and $24k. They are based purely on stats and the application’s contents, they come with the acceptance letter. </p>
<p>Miami’s reason for all the merit scholarships is that it is one of the most up-and-coming universities, having made the biggest jump in rankings in the shortest amount of time (not attributed to changes in ranking formula). And by offering this merit money to good students who are likely getting into even more prestigious schools, they just may commit to UM and there begins the domino effect that leads to a good student getting a good job with a lot of money and donating back to the institution.</p>
<p>Colleges are building a community, a reputation as well as ratings. Schools use merit awards to “buy” more of the type of students they want on their wish lists. There are wish lists at every school as to what a college wants in their upcoming class, and admissions does keep an eye on that list. You are lucky if your student’s profile lines up with something on that wish list. It can a hook that is not one of the usual ones.</p>
<p>There are also a number of very good schools that would like to get more of a national presence with more students coming from other parts of the country. BC can fill its class with east coast Catholic kids. A lot of catholic schools and LACs would be 80% female, if some enrollment management isn’t practiced, and with prices the way they are these days, merit money is a nice sweetner.</p>
<p>In our case, personally, without merit money, none of the top priced privates are even possible. My kids had throw any of those offers of the table unless some discount in the form of merit scholarships was offered.</p>
<p>
lol, I hope you weren’t referring to me, TomSr :). I’m certainly not one who pursues the image of a “cherished elite school”! I made the comment about some of them only offering a handful of merit scholarships, because for some of them there is certainly very little chance of getting one of their coveted scholarships. Others, such as Holy Cross (mentioned in another thread) flatly state that they don’t give merit scholarships, when they actually give out like 6 a year. </p>
<p>When S was looking (and now D), OTOH, we were able to get a very good idea at each place he applied what he was likely to be offered.</p>
<p>Some merit awards are truly pie in the sky awards that very, very few will achieve. At some schools, they are still being given because there may be funding and stipulations for those awards, and they cannot be folded into financial aid without violating the terms of the donors. Some schools actively have a program of merit awards to frankly buy what they want. The students who get those awards are not the ones who simply have the highest stats most of the time. I have frequently mepromisntioned on these boards about a situation that I personally know about a young lady with very high stats not getting one of a popular (for this area) college’s merit awards, while I knew another who got one from across the country where I used to live who was not nearly as stellar in stats. Basically this school could fill its class with a certain profile and was trying to broaden the type of top students it gets.</p>
<p>My kids did well in getting award offers from schools that were not in the immediate vicinity where they would provide some non local flavor. Didn’t get much at all from local schools where they were one of the many dozens that a dime would buy.</p>
<p>I agree with CPT - my experience is schools want to fill a certain niche. My S is NMF with very strong ECs. His SAT were also strong 2260, but not perfect. He was awarded merit money (from full rides down to $18K) to Davidson, W&L, Rice, USC, Wake. Accepted to Columbia and Williams (no merit and we do not qualify for financial aid- we are “full pay”). Waitlisted at Harvard and Yale. Rejected to dartmouth. The one merit scholarship I did think he had the strongest shot at (aside from USC) was the chancellor at Vanderbilt. His ECs were dead on. He did not receive the scholarship and he was wait listed at Vanderbilt (we visited and toured etc- definitely showed interest). I am certain that he did not fit a “niche” for the scholarship and his SATs were not in line with what they were shooting for overall. That’s my humble opinion.</p>
<p>A response to “I thought a college is a business like everything else.” There are some college administrators who think this way but they’re the people who are hated and despised by college faculty. I’ve been teaching at the college level for 20+ years and while faculty know that colleges need to be run in a businesslike way, it’s important to us that colleges are not primarily a business. Most educators are not in it for the money. Many colleges are still non-profits and abide by the mission that education is about teaching and encouraging students’ intellectual growth–and not about getting as much money from them as possible. I know that this sounds hard to believe in the face of today’s astronomical tuition, but really, it’s what many faculty believe.</p>
<p>About the college search, I’m new to it since D is in 9th grade but hope that she’ll qualify for some merit scholarships since we’re going to be part of the “donut” contingent, making too much to qualify for much financial aid. I’m hopeful because she’s currently in honors classes and is one of a handful of students who has a merit scholarship at her private school. We’ll have to find her niche; also I’m fine with her not going to one of the top 20 or even top 50 schools.</p>
<p>sylvan8798, I’m curious about your comment: “When S was looking (and now D), OTOH, we were able to get a very good idea at each place he applied what he was likely to be offered.” How were you able to get an idea on this?</p>
<p>* He was awarded merit money (from full rides down to $18K) to Davidson, W&L, Rice, USC, Wake.*</p>
<p>???</p>
<p>Which of these schools awarded a “full ride”. I didn’t know any of them did. I know that USC awards half-tuition to NMFs, and sometimes will award full tuition. Which of these schools awards a full ride (which is tuition, room, board, etc.)</p>
<p>sylvan8798, I’m curious about your comment: “When S was looking (and now D), OTOH, we were able to get a very good idea at each place he applied what he was likely to be offered.” How were you able to get an idea on this?</p>
<p>I’m not sylvan, but I may be able to answer…</p>
<p>1) Some schools put the “assured scholarship” amounts right on their websites…if you have the stats, you get the money…often there is an app deadline, though.</p>
<p>2) Some schools don’t state that they award to all with particular stats, but they have a rep for doing so. We “knew” that our kids’ stats would get a $25k/yr award to Tulane, but I don’t think that was assured.</p>
<p>3) Some schools list scholarships on their websites that aren’t “assured”, but you can be somewhat confident that your child will get one if your child’s stats are well above the considered minimums…or your child’s stats (especially test scores) are well penetrated into the top quartile of the college.</p>
<p>The ones that are really iffy are the limited number ones. Those often are highly competitive and are unknown. </p>
<p>To be on the safe side, apply to at least 1- 2 schools that will award for stated stats.</p>
<p>I don’t believe that any of the top 30 or so ranked schools (US News) offer merit aid.</p>
<h1>5 University of Chicago: <a href=“https://collegeadmissions.uchicago.edu/costs/merit.shtml[/url]”>https://collegeadmissions.uchicago.edu/costs/merit.shtml</a></h1>
<h1>10 Duke: [Duke</a> University | OUSF Office of Scholars & Fellows: Merit Scholarship Programs](<a href=“http://ousf.duke.edu/merit-scholarship-programs]Duke”>http://ousf.duke.edu/merit-scholarship-programs)</h1>
<h1>12 Northwestern: [Scholarships</a> & Grants: Undergraduate Financial Aid - Northwestern University<a href=“these%20are%20competitive%20need-based%20scholarships,%20which%20means%20they%20are%20a%20mix%20of%20merit%20and%20need”>/url</a></h1>
<h1>13 Johns Hopkins: [url=<a href=“Student Financial Support | Johns Hopkins University”>Student Financial Support | Johns Hopkins University]JHU</a> Student Financial Services | Prospective Students | Freshman & Transfers | Scholarships](<a href=“http://ug-finaid.northwestern.edu/topics/prospective/scholarships_grants.html]Scholarships”>http://ug-finaid.northwestern.edu/topics/prospective/scholarships_grants.html)</h1>
<h1>14 Washington University in St. Louis: [Scholarship</a> Programs At-A-Glance](<a href=“http://admissions.wustl.edu/scholarships/programs/Pages/default.aspx]Scholarship”>http://admissions.wustl.edu/scholarships/programs/Pages/default.aspx)</h1>
<h1>17 Rice: [Financial</a> Aid at Rice University](<a href=“http://financialaid.rice.edu/scholarships.aspx]Financial”>http://financialaid.rice.edu/scholarships.aspx)</h1>
<h1>17 Vanderbilt: [Scholarships*|*Vanderbilt</a> University](<a href=“http://www.vanderbilt.edu/scholarships/]Scholarships*|*Vanderbilt”>Scholarships | Vanderbilt University)</h1>
<h1>19 Notre Dame: [Notre</a> Dame Scholarships/Grants : Office of Student Financial Services : University of Notre Dame<a href=“these%20are%20also%20competitive%20need-based%20scholarships”>/url</a></h1>
<h1>20 Emory: [url=<a href=“Welcome to Emory College.”>Welcome to Emory College.]Future</a> Student Financial Aid | Emory College | Atlanta, GA<a href=“I%20had%20a%20friend%20from%20high%20school%20who%20got%20one%20of%20these.%20%20He%20just%20finished%20med%20school%20at%20WUSTL%20last%20year”>/url</a></h1>
<h1>23 Carnegie Mellon: [url=<a href=“Home - Computing Services - Office of the CIO - Carnegie Mellon University”>Home - Computing Services - Office of the CIO - Carnegie Mellon University]Admission</a> > Grants and Scholarships<a href=“scholarships%20offered%20to%20%22donut%20hole%22%20families”>/url</a></h1>
<h1>23 USC: [url=<a href=“http://www.usc.edu/admission/fa/grants_scholarships/undergraduates/usc.html]USC”>http://www.usc.edu/admission/fa/grants_scholarships/undergraduates/usc.html]USC</a> Financial Aid - Grants & Scholarships - Undergraduate - USC Scholarships](<a href=“http://financialaid.nd.edu/undergraduate/scholarships/nd_scholarships_grants.shtml]Notre”>http://financialaid.nd.edu/undergraduate/scholarships/nd_scholarships_grants.shtml)</h1>
<h1>25 Wake Forest: [WFU</a> | Admissions | Student Financial Aid | Merit-Based Scholarships | Introduction](<a href=“Student Financial Aid | Wake Forest University”>http://www.wfu.edu/finaid/merit-based_intro.html)</h1>
<p>I could probably go through the liberal arts list and do the same thing. Basically, it seems like most universities in the top 30 offer merit aid. (I skipped the Ivies for obvious reasons, but I also skipped public universities just because I didn’t feel like wading through their websites, which are often like mazes.)</p>
<p>But even schools outside the top 30 that offer merit aid aren’t necessarily sketchy or bad schools. They may be up-and-coming on the rankings, but that doesn’t mean they are bad schools. Those may be the places where top students can get pretty much guaranteed aid. I was a student at a public magnet “donut hole” school - most of the students were in middle-income families that made too much for substantial need aid but didn’t make enough to shell out $50K a year for school. My class and the class before me set some kids off to these top 30 schools - we had a kid get a scholarship at Notre Dame, one at Chicago, one or two at Duke and one at Emory. But we had a LOT of kids, including myself, get into tier 2 schools (50-100) with significant merit aid. Almost all of my friends from high school got a scholarship of some kind from some school because we had a savvy counselor who advised us to reach for the stars (in case we got into a top 100% of need school that offered us a good package, or managed to nab one of the few merit scholarships from the tippy-top) but also had a running list of great tier 2 schools with big merit programs.</p>
<p>And, to answer the question, schools offer merit scholarships to attract students like me and my friends in 2004 - or a lot of CC students in 2012/2013. The students who probably could’ve gotten into the top 30-50 schools, and maybe did, but can’t afford to go there without aid. It gets that top talent into the lower-ranked schools and gets the moving and shaking up the school. Sometimes it’s a rankings grab - especially for the schools that are very close to tier 1 (my undergraduate LAC is at #62 right now). Other times, it’s not explicitly about the rankings but more just about…improving the overall quality of the student body and eventually attracting more top students who will pay full price, or close to it, to be with the brilliant minds. After all, that’s why the Ivies don’t need to offer merit scholarships - how many threads have we seen this year that are titled something like “Full Scholarship at Perfectly Good and Reputable College/University, or Full Price at Ridiculously Expensive Ivy/Top 20 school?”</p>
<p>It also increases both income and minority diversity. Income diversity for obvious reasons. But like I said, my parents were solidly middle-class; however, we’re African American, and when my parents were growing up it was uncommon for black folks to go to college, so they didn’t. Therefore, despite being middle-income, my parents didn’t expect me to go to college so they didn’t save, and they balked at the idea of borrowing loans for me to go to school - not realizing that that was done. Even though the government expects parents to shoulder the burden, my parents - and most of my friends’ parents, who were also primarily black and did not attend college - thought it was our responsibility to figure out how to get into and pay for college. Merit scholarships made that possible for many of us (even the ones who went to flagship Georgia universities on HOPE, which back in the day paid for all of your tuition - we had a lot of my class go to Tech).</p>
<p>I’m fairly sure that’s pretty common in my generation of black students, and perhaps other students of color/underrepresented students as well.</p>
<p>Ivys don’t. There are also a number of schools that do not give merit scholarships at all. But there are top schools that do offer merit awards as listed above and some that have merit within need where if you qualify for a drop of need, you can get more than that need. Also HPY and some other schools have some generous parameters in terms of defining need.</p>
<p>“Basically, it seems like most universities in the top 30 offer merit aid.”</p>
<p>Thanks for the work you did. Not to belabor this, but 12 out of thirty is not most, and I’d like to see how many scholarships they actually award. </p>
<p>To the Ivies, I’d add the NESCACs as schools that don’t offer merit, which are are big chunk of the top 30 liberal arts. (I’m sure someone will find an exception.)</p>
<p>It’s not 100 percent but not offering merit has a strong association with high rank.</p>
<p>It’s not 100 percent but not offering merit has a strong association with high rank.</p>
<p>True…and that’s generally because most/all of their students have very high stats…so who gets the merit?? lol </p>
<p>That said, sometimes top schools WILL award merit to target some kids that help them with ethnic diversity or regional diversity. Schools like to say that they have kids from all 50 states and they like to have a good number of URMs for diversity sake.</p>
<p>Mom2Collegekids - Davidson (Belk Scholarship) is a full ride (tuition, R&B, fees, summer stipends). W&L has the Johnson Scholarship (which is the same minus the summer stipends).</p>
<p>Yes, but don’t you think the no merit school could offer a URM, for example, enough money to attend without calling it merit–particularly for talented applicants with low EFCs?</p>
<p>S2012…</p>
<p>Thanks…good to know!</p>
<p>Latiche…yes, if the URM has need. But, there are some well-healed URMs with top stats out there. Believe me, I know…I live in a neighborhood that’s about 25-30% black…all very affluent.</p>
<p>Generally, schools offer merit scholarships to attract students they wouldn’t otherwise get. Some of them sweeten the pot with other perks, such as honor dorms, stipends for study abroad, etc. This is how Duke (for example) is able to get some high-achieving kids who would otherwise go to HYP.</p>
<p>The more interesting question is: why do they want to get these kids? I think they do want to raise their profile, prestige, ratings, etc. But I would also say that some of these scholarships–especially those funded by rich alumni–are based on the idea that the school is already great, and should have great students as well.</p>
<p>
Mom2 is right. Many schools have very clearly defined info on their websites (sometimes it takes some scrounging around, so use the search functions if you have to). They will state that students with stats in a certain range will get $X in merit scholarships. </p>
<p>S had a SAT CR/M of 1500, and decent GPA, so he fell into the desired stat range at many places. He was not applying to top places, although still in what was once known as “tier 2” - Xavier University, Fordham University, Canisius College, etc. If your kid ends up being in a range of stats which might get her one of the competitive scholarships, then it’s more of a crapshoot, although you can still guesstimate the minimum offers she would get. Neither S nor D being a “cc overachiever” we didn’t have to worry about that ;).</p>
<p>We’re also in the donut hole, as it were.</p>
<p>Thanks mom2collegekids and sylvan, looks like I have a lot of research to do.</p>