Those academic programs would have to be offered through local high schools or cc’s. Dorming programs are too expensive.
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If you are low-income, Summer@Brown has a terrific financial aid program. For a 0-EFC type kid, it’s $300 and includes room and board and everything. It’s called the Dean’s Scholarship and you need to apply early.
I think someone mentioned this but didn’t link it:
“A Stanford dean on adult skills every 18-year-old should have”
Number 7 (of 8) is:
http://qz.com/644491/a-stanford-dean-on-adult-skills-every-18-year-old-should-have/?utm_source=atlfb
Working a summer (or any) job as a teenagers, no matter how menial, helps you grow as a person - you learn how to solve problems, manage your time, take pride in being able to earn some of the things you get in life, meet people from all walks of life, etc. It’s something you can take charge of without your parents having to be involved.
As a hiring manager of student employees on a college campus, it always stuns me when I get senior applicants for a position who have never held a job in their life. I’ve hired a couple over the years and I’m sorry to say I have regretted it. Maybe I was just unlucky, but I definitely noticed a lack of dependability and a very narrow skills set in both. I’m sure that’s not always the case, but in the future, I’ll stick with the kid who once flipped burgers or bagged groceries.
The OP’s comments seem to reflect a perspective derived from bizarre perspective that selective admissions offices are conveying to students, while the parental responses largely focus on teaching kids about the real world. The OP does not address the real world, and the parents do not address selective admissions, so both continue to talk past one another.
The OP is clearly a bit naive, and certainly could have chosen his/her words better. However, I still don’t like to see the type of ad hominem attacks that many people have felt the need to post on this thread. The OP is a high school student and we are supposed to be the adults. Adults should be able to express a perspective and educate without attacking and demeaning the student personally.
So many posters feeling the need to reply to the OP with vitriolic, ad hominem attacks suggests to me that the OP may have touched on an insecurity that makes some parents feel the need to lash angrily at this high school student.
Perhaps they have tried to do the right thing for their student, but also see that it may not be aligned with the push for achievement and demonstrated interest that is en vogue with admissions committees? idk. I get that the OP has a lot to learn, but that should be expected of a high school student, so why all the anger?
OP is 18, and an adult. OP has basically bashed every kid who has ever held a summer job, so I kind of get why people might think OP is arrogant and entitled. OP has belittled all manner of working people, and is about as modest as Donald Trump. Some people have expressed sympathy for his naïveté, and I too would like to express sympathy for him. I think he has perhaps had a fairly joyless life to be so certain that everyone who hasn’t lived the way he has is destined for mediocrity. I think those of us who are calling OP out for his insensitive behavior on an anonymous forum might be doing him a favor. Maybe he will think twice before talking crud about kids who chose to get jobs (guessing the vast majority of kids, btw) while they are sitting in a college food hall, and he finds himself without friends.
My kids’ summer jobs allowed them to use and build up their skills. My son, who had been a debater in high school and was majoring in economics in college, had summer jobs in college (a) at a debate camp, and (b) doing economic-social research (data analysis) for a professor at a university near his home. He made a little spending money for the school year, and also learned some things.
My daughter, who was studying industrial design in college, worked as an assistant for a furniture maker in our home town in the summer. She gained some skills with tools, and also earned some spending money for college.
This was part of our “deal” with both kids. We will cover your costs of education (no loans) but you should contribute to your spending money in college by taking summer jobs. These were not full time jobs.
In my college years, I also worked in summers, twice in a grocery (boxboy and then clerk) and once in the motorpool (driver) in a major motion picture studio in Hollywood. I learned a lot at both jobs and socked away some money as well. In high school, my summer jobs were working as a gardener’s helper (“yard work”) and in a grocery. These jobs made me feel more independent. I didn’t need to focus on school things – though one summer in college I also took a language course at a local community college.
The OP seemed to use a very anecdotal experience that didn’t really prove anything, to draw an extremely broad conclusion that seemed really dismissive of the value of having a job during high school.
Then when people gave numerous examples of how they or their children benefited from high school jobs, OP kind of just ignored them. I don’t believe OP ever said, “Oh, that’s a really good point. I can see how a summer / high school job can be important.”
Yeah, some responses were a little harsh, but I think people got frustrated b/c OP was dismissing and invalidating everyone’s anecdotal life experience that did not support his/her conclusion, while presenting his/her anecdotal life experience as the only one that mattered. So I can see why people got a little miffed.
Personally I thought the assumptions behind the OP were kind of strange. Seems like OP thought the summer program gave him the extra edge he needed to get accepted. I don’t know how he would know this unless the NU Admissions office told him, “Whew, you got in by the skin of your teeth, good thing you did that summer program instead of a summer job.” It’s more reasonable to assume OP was such a strong applicant that he would have gotten in anyway, even if he worked the ice cream parlor instead.
NU is one of the most selective schools in the country. maybe his friends didn’t get in to NU or a similar school because 90% of those who apply don’t get in – not because they had a summer job.
I work 20-30 hrs/wk during the school year and still managed a good GPA at a good HS along with excellent SAT scores. I think for most people, working is more beneficial than a summer program. I think if you need remedial help, spending so much time on it that you have no time for a part time job would be overdoing it. During the summer you could spend 40 hrs or less per week on academics and still have time to work.
I do think it’s fine if some summers you choose to do something else with your time, if you are lucky enough to be able to afford it. I’ve definitely learned a lot working, but I don’t think its impossible to know the value of a dollar if you don’t work. If you’re very sheltered like OP comes off, if you’re very shy, or if your parents don’t give you spending/gas/tuition/etc money (like most people), working is nearly essential. I would be very open to accepting exceptions to this, though.
Kids that need remedial help do not get into fancy summer programs, and those programs do not help an applicant. The OP is completely off base. Adcoms know over privileged kids buy these programs (excluding the ones that are FREE- therefore very competitive) and they don’t improve the application. Are they a fun thing to do, and a growth opportunity for some students? Sure. So is a 6 week trip to Europe… perhaps it students should start fundraising for those too.
“The OP seemed to use a very anecdotal experience that didn’t really prove anything, to draw an extremely broad conclusion that seemed really dismissive of the value of having a job during high school.”
All true, but the responses were even more anecdotal with lots of ad hominem attacks.
“Personally I thought the assumptions behind the OP were kind of strange. Seems like OP thought the summer program gave him the extra edge he needed to get accepted.”
Clearly, no student knows what put them over the top, but his comments are in line with what top admissions offices are telling students. They want to see students demonstrated interest and achievement in their potential major outside of the classroom, and things students learned or did at summer programs can contribute to that. Jobs contribute to developing a well-rounded person, but that seems to be currently at the bottom of the adcom’s priorities du jour.
“OP has basically bashed every kid who has ever held a summer job”
Clearly it sounded insulting, and I think it’s fine to disagree, but I always try to do it with respect for the other person. I was about 12 when I had my first job, a paper route, but I didn’t feel insulted. I know what I took from the experience, even if he doesn’t. I also know that it did not impact my chance to get into a fancy school like Northwestern, because the chance was zero before and after that paper route. lol
I think parents had the opportunity to respond by modeling for the OP how to discuss a potentially sensitive subject, while being respectful and avoiding personal attacks. Instead, many posters seem to rather enjoy making comments that, in my opinion, demonstrated even less maturity than the OPs comments.
The OP should have been more tactful, but in his/her defense I’d like to point out the opinion expressed is the view of many, many students and their parents where I live. In fact, the way kids here get into all the advanced classes in high school is by taking courses over the summer. The school district itself offers a wide array of both enrichment and level advancement opportunities and the high school science teachers even advise their students to get courses out of the way during the summer. For example, if students take our state-mandated personal finance course in July and August, then that opens up a slot for the lab period of AP Bio, AP Chem, or AP Physics, which otherwise they’re going to have trouble finding space for in their schedule.
I intensely dislike this system, but have not seen that the top students get rejected from good colleges due to lack of work experience. On the contrary, good luck trying to get in a top school without AP classes! For the record, my kids worked but it did cost them in class rank.
Really? You WON? You didn’t-- I employ people all the time, and I can assure you that the ones who know how to find a job, do a job, keep a job and learn the value of a dollar go to the top of the resume pile… I am always less than impressed with the professional student-- even if they have a sky high GPA.
You really ought to listen to your parents
“Working on academics during summers is counterproductive and it does not serves its purpose at all, it defeats it!!”
How can it be that more learning is harmful? Any evidence for this assertion? (Not an anecdote please).
i would not make the argument that top colleges want/reward work. i would make the argument that work is what our kids will actually be doing for 45 years of their life (or more), and getting some basic skills in it that aren’t taught in any classroom is something I want my kids to go out the door when they leave home before they have to play with the big kids where their work skills determine if they get a permanent offer or get to keep the jobs that support them as adults. I would also make the argument that colleges want kids who are genuine – who follow their interests, work hard and excel at the things they choose, and are interesting/interested human beings. That does not preclude OR require work. It also does not preclude OR require summer programs.
I am also curious - if you have no job how do you have spending money? My daughters don’t have to get jobs but I don’t have to run them around in my car with my gas to their friends, or pay for movie tickets, or starbucks or whatever else they ‘want’ and don’t ‘need’.
My husband and I are true ogres— all of our kids are/were required if they wanted to go on their HS Senior Trip (Disney - $1200) to work and earn the money and SAVE it – they are all doing it in addition to being honor students and playing varsity sports (multiple ones)-- and you know what? They are feeling really good about having done that.
Even the 15 year old has a job-- the college freshman paid for the trip, the current junior already has 900 of it saved and paid, and even the sophomore has the 200 deposit in-- AND they have spending money too.
"Summer academic programs help you become a better writer, prep for SAT retake, and take intro courses you plan to take in the future.
My summer program helped my essays, improved my SAT score, and helped me breeze through an online psych course last fall.
My friends that stayed home were academically idle all summer. They were just shy of qualifying for the colleges they wanted to attend, so a little boost could have put them over the edge. "
Eh— qualifying for the colleges they wanted to attend can be overrated. There are many many paths to education and success. Let’s see how much all that matters in the long run. It probably doesn’t.
@TheGFG kids can work and take classes. They aren’t mutually exclusive. That said, I’d hate to live in a competitive environment like that where teachers are pushing kids to take summer classes so they can load up on more APs. You should send them the Harvard article where they are saying there is less focus on APs.
The BEST thing schools can do is get rid of ranking. Its unfair and counterproductive.
It’s obviously not your family’s way of doing things, but some parents make the decision to provide spending money, particularly in situations when holding a paid job conflicts with other priorities.
We have a selective magnet-type pre-IB/IB four-year high school program in our district. My daughter took the test for it and was offered a spot. At the orientation meeting, parents and students were specifically told that the demands of the program almost always made it impossible for students to hold down paid jobs, either during the school year or in the summer.
I assume that families who highly value having their kids have the experience of paid work during high school and who consider it inappropriate to provide a non-working student with spending money decided at that point that the program was not for them. And that’s fine.
But there were also families (including mine) who were willing to accept this limitation on their kids’ lives. And we provided our IB kids with spending money during high school.
As others have said, one doesn’t preclude the other. There is zero evidence proving that teen summer work is a detriment to learning. (I am not talking about a kid who must work to support a family, though even then, those kids can still do great in school or college.) Saying that a kid can’t work a summer job for several days a week without harming his academic chances is complete rubbish. At least 8 kids in our HS are going to elite, Top 20 colleges (Duke, Harvard, Cornell, etc…) Several of those kids have worked during the summer at our local, you guessed it, ice cream stand. Brown kid teaches music to young kids. He is truly gifted, he could have been a street sweeper and would still have got into Brown. That theory has no credibility.
Last summer D held 2 part-time internships, trained daily for her sport, and took an online class. But I’ll be the first to admit she was super, super lucky and it was a miracle that the scheduling of the internships worked out so well. I can tell you she would not have been able to take any daytime, high credit hour classes and still work too. The courses I mentioned at our high school meet 8-1 M-F. It’s hard enough to find a job as teenager today even if you are free 24/7. There just aren’t many positions available, so imagine the difficulty if you start restricting your availability to an employer because of a class! Furthermore, most teen-friendly positions don’t offer more than a few hours a week as it is. The kids are used to fill in the gaps around their full-time, adult employees. So if a teen is hard to schedule in, he can expect to get precious few hours. (On a related note, there’s a thread on the cafe about kids who can’t get hired once the employer learns they attend college out of state and won’t be continuing to work come Sept.)