@lindagaf “is a summer job a strategy? Surely it’s more of way for kids who don’t have rich parents to pay for stuff. Or even for kids who do have rich parents.”
If the family needs the money, that is a very different question than what is the best approach if they don’t need it. I guess that by strategy I meant the highest, best use of their time.
To me, what the best approach is would depend on what the summer job is, what the academic options are and the individual kid. For example, I imagine retail jobs that face customers to be actually very valuable in developing people skills. In contrast, my kid wanted to be a lifeguard because it pays better. Just sitting and staring at people swimming for hours. I don’t see much value in that.
I think that many summer programs are not very valuable, but some of them are. Two summers DD1 was able to commute and take regular college classes at Northwestern University with college students. I think that was a great experience. A third summer she was invited to spend a month at MIT at a very competitive program (WTP). That was an amazing experience! Any student who has the opportunity should do it in my opinion.
@Much2learn, I can think of no good reason that a student should not at least work summer after senior year.
@Much2learn I respectively disagree. All summer or school term jobs are valuable in some way. I don’t think I’ve ever heard anyone else say that life-guarding is a waste of time. Wow!
@Much2learn
" I really question the summer job strategy. I think it can be good for some kids, but for others I think it is a big mistake."
You did a fine job expressing how not working was fine for your daughter but you did not illuminate us on how a job is a mistake for some.
My son has managed to volunteer full time for two summers and work for pay for the next two summers. He was given time off last summer to attend a week long program at UVA. I have to think his supervisor’s reference has something to do with the generous scholarship he got at one college and the smaller merit awards at some others. He has about $7500 of his own money saved and it looks as though he will not have to spend it on college. He also managed to participate in an ordinary neighborhood swim team all summers.
I don’t really care how other people’s kids spend their summers. There seems to be an implication that people who work at ice cream shops or work fast food are somehow diminished. The attitude is ugly.
Certainly some kids can do fine w/o ever having jobs, but yeah, I have trouble with the idea of having a job being a "big mistake.
I never had a job in HS, other than tutoring for a few months, because we lived in a kind of remote area and there was no easy way to get to/from a job. I did very well in school and got into a good college. But I can’t imagine that having a job would have caused some kind of problem. I did always have a job in college. If I’d had some HS work experience I quite possibly could have started out with a better college job than I did, so maybe it would have helped.
@Much2learn My son is an ocean lifeguard in the summers, and he has actually saved people’s lives! Please be thankful you have eyes on you next time you are swimming at a guarded beach. The undertow can suck out unsuspecting swimmers even on a calm day and the first thing they do is panic! The lifeguards are highly trained to deal with these life threatening situations. Hence the name.
@Much2learn as the mother of a now-26 yo who was saved from drowning as a toddler, I find your characterization of life guards ridiculous. They do far more than “Just sitting and staring at people swimming for hours.” and it’s PLENTY valuable! Even if they NEVER save anyone, they learn valuable first-aid skills and emergency response skills that can only help them in life. How often does one hear about a person having a medical emergency while others stand around unsure of what to do. A trained life guard will not forget their training even years later. Those skills are priceless. Too bad you’ve convinced yourself that academics trump something that important.
@Much2learn actual lifeguard here…I can say (at least in my situation) it has been one of the best experiences of my lives. Not only do I get to network and meet a ton of people who could possibly help me later in life, it also teaches me great social skills such as dealing with unkindly people, problem solving and thinking on my feet. Not to mention the actual training is always helpful. (I’ve saved 2 people)
I have lifeguarded for 3.5 summers now (I’m a HS senior about to graduate), yet I have also attended an academic program, an SAT class, and had 2 internships (1 of which I got through someone I met, take a guess, yes, at the pool which I lifeguard.)
I’m also nearly 100% sure that my job helped me get in to the college I’ll be attending.
I just think most if not all students these days should use summer to improve their academics and gain an edge in admissions. Even middle class students who “need” to help out. A bump in stats that leads to a single small scholarship is more than a teenager could ever save in a summer. So the obsession by some parents that their student work a brainless job is really shortsighted.
Did you actually read the posts here? A lot of what students gain has little to do with the money earned. Learning how to be an employee may sound like nothing to you, but I hope I am not your internship manager if you have never worked for pay before. There are some skills that are not taught in high school or summer programs or college classrooms.
I think most ADCOMs recognize what the summer academic programs are - way for people with money to pad their kids’ applications with impressive sounding classes that hopefully will make them stand out. For the kids who can’t afford that, they just have to rely on their hard work to shine through in the application. My son worked as a supermarket cashier during his junior and senior year summers and he didn’t need any of these fancy classes to get into the school of his choice. I’m glad he learned the honor of labor and how to be dependable, as well earning his pocket money when he headed off to college. Those summer jobs got him better internships during his college summers.
@intparent “@Much2learn, I can think of no good reason that a student should not at least work summer after senior year.”
I think it is fine. DD1 took a class at Northwestern and I wanted her to be rested and ready to rock for a tough fall schedule. By non-cc: standards I think she is doing very well.
@1or2Musicians You did a fine job expressing how not working was fine for your daughter, but you did not illuminate us on how a job is a mistake for some.
I am trying to say that for a student with a specific ability, the time may be better spent on that ability.
“There seems to be an implication that people who work at ice cream shops or work fast food are somehow diminished. The attitude is ugly.”
I do not have that opinion at all. I am not opposed to kids working at all. I think if I said the kid was a quarterback and spent the summer at QB camp more people would understand.
" I can’t imagine that having a job would have caused some kind of problem. I did always have a job in college."
I did too. However, in DD1’s case, she may not be at the college she is in, in the major she is in without that extra work. Her major is only available to about 20 students per year and she is at the only school that offers it.
Again, I am not saying working is bad at all, I just think it isn’t the best decision for everyone. Life is more complex than that.
OP, YOU are the one who is short-sighted. With the exception of only a few universities, a small bump in stats is NOT the only reason students get admitted to colleges and there are scholarships for many things besides “stats”.
And as others have pointed out, there are no jobs that are “brainless”. Every single job requires, at a bare minimum, responsibility and the ability to relate to others, the boss, if nothing else. They require dedication, showing up when you’re not well rested or have problems at home, etc. They require being mature. All of them. Those are all good things to learn, all things that will help any student in LIFE, not just with “stats”.
And your disdain for these “brainless” jobs is ugly. Some of the greats in history started out with “brainless” jobs. And many of the “brainless” job workers give the rest of us the ability to do what we do. Quite often, those “brainless” jobs are more important than those degree-required desk jobs we hold.
@futureNU16 , banging my head against a wall. WHAT DO YOU NOT GET? Life is not all about academics! Not everyone is trying to get into Stanford. (BTW, pretty sure you didn’t get in.) Remember our friend the janitor? His p__p might look just like yours, but I am guessing it smells better.
We grew up milking cows, baling hay and working our farm year-round.
My D loved working in a grocery store summer before college and first semester, but they went out of business. She is now in a Nursing program that requires her to take class year-round and does not want the students to work, so she has not gotten another job.
My S wants to earn an Associates in Engineering while in high school, so he is taking CC classes in summer and pretty much a full college schedule during the school year. If he can earn enough credits to earn his BS 1-2 years sooner, that will likely wind up being more financially advantageous than working summer jobs before college.
Different kids may benefit from different approaches.
But if you are going to do a summer program I think it’s best to do something to earn college credits.
I worked all through college. I waitressed, worked at day care, and was a teaching assistant. I once went door to door selling shirts. I rode a bike and delivered packages in London. I have worked since I was 16, including summers. I have a degree. I have travelled to 37 countries (four more coming up) and I live in a large house in an extremely wealthy part of America. Not trying to brag, but working works for EVERYONE. And interestingly, even in my extremely wealthy part of America, it becomes quite embarrassing if your teen hasn’t worked. My 15 year old works for the neighbor. My 17 year old babysits and will work this summer. My 17 year old has also participated in summer academic courses and has got into some great colleges. I actually think it’s kind of shocking that some people think it’s okay for teens to never work.
“With the exception of only a few universities, a small bump in stats is NOT the only reason students get admitted to colleges and there are scholarships for many things besides “stats”.”
I actually agree with this. What I am talking about is a kid taking the opportunity to demonstrate something extraordinary, not adding a few SAT points.
Furthermore, I have agreed that I am not opposed to summer jobs. In contrast, many of you are asserting that classes are always inferior, but have offered no evidence for that view. From my perspective, without evidence that I am wrong, you are just demonstrating a cognitive bias that you could have learned about in a summer class. Please illuminate me!
“I also want to note that most friends who had the pointless summer jobs are upper middle class and don’t have the best academics. Now they’re bummed they didn’t get into the colleges they wanted to go to. And they blew the money throwing parties or on other pointless stuff. I really don’t think they learned the value of anything. It was free money to be bored at a location that wasn’t their back yard. And none of it warrants putting on their resume.”
Well, I can tel you one thing they learned (unless particularly obtuse) - what life is like working full time at a minimum wage, low skill job. Maybe that will provide motivation to do better in school in future, to avoid a lifetime of it.
Let’s look at this exclusively from the perspective of the college admissions department.
2 students, similar grades, SATs, ECs. Only difference: Student A spent summers doing academic programs, learning how to write college essays, prepping for the SAT. Student B had a job. Who will get in?
My vote goes to student B. Because s/he will have a lot more life experience to bring to the campus. They’ve interacted with a wide range of people – both other employees and possibly customers. They’ve shown an interest in something outside of academics. They’ve indicated that life is a lot more than studying and preparing for college. They will be more well-rounded and mature. Etc., etc.
Student A spends 12 months out of 12 studying. Boring.
I don’t think classes are always inferior. My kids did various camps and programs in their summers until senior year, and worked after that. But almost every student will eventually have a boss and a job (even that star quarterback or great musician). Learning the basic skills of holding a job is as valuable as learning to swim or drive or a myriad of other skills we would like to send our kids to college with.