Why do seemingly perfect students get rejected from Ivies?

<p>Depends on the school. It can be all professionals from the admissions office (often one older dean of admissions + a gaggle of younger folks, some of whom may be alums), or a mix incorporating current students and professors. Or it might just be decisions made by the students alone (Deep Springs, one of the most difficult admits around). </p>

<p>Generally, there are two types of Admissions People: some are young and just hired, stay in the business for 2-5 years. They’re either recent graduates from the college who have been very involved in the college’s life (generally), or graduates from well-known colleges in the area (more rarely). Then then move on to other careers, or law school, or Ed Administration grad school.
The second type is the career admission person: there are very few of them and they have successfully worked in admissions at 2-5 colleges before getting a permanent gig they consider satisfactory, then they settle and try to become Dean of Admissions. They’re in their 30s, 40s, 50s.
I recommend watching the comedy “Admissions” with Tina Fey. It’s a comedy, so take it with a grain of salt. But some of the basics about how admission officers work is true.</p>

<p>I would say the adcom mix depends on the school. All must know the U well, all points, as well as how the institutional is evolving (new programs, various needs, some constraints) and the sorts of students who thrive there, which is more than just academically. Plus what high schools are offering and turning out. And what the competition is up to. All those I know are very interested in kids and what they are capable of, how they interact and can influence each other. The ones I know spend a large part of the year reaching out. </p>

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<p>Not only that, but let’s not put the elite-school graduates who are now our nation’s business and political leaders on too much of a pedestal. Look at the messes they’ve created.</p>

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<p>One of my good friends is an admissions officer at a top 50 LAC. He’s got an (Ivy) masters degree and has been working in admissions for years…I’ve known him for almost 20 and he has been, all that time, at the same college, he’s in his late 40’s.</p>

<p>He is not the head of admissions (though I suppose he might be one day) but is a senior rep and has a specific geographic territory. At certain times of the year he travels a lot, recruiting at college fairs and high schools, then at certain times he is reading ED and RD apps and doing his part to choose the class, then he switches to yield stuff like encouraging accepted students to come.</p>

<p>He likes his work a lot, and he is part of a team that definitely has goals and objectives to meet in terms of yield, high stats, diversity, best use of financial resources, etc etc.</p>

<p>@sally305, I am simply saying that the college process now is very different than what was when many of the posters on this thread went through it. As for “adcoms” I do not believe they hold a very unbiased opinion of the “system” they use and love. I have read quite a few posts, and see that many of the “parents” posting had children that were either accepted to a very good school, or were resigned to the fact that they didn’t. Therefore their experiences and emotions also cloud their responses. </p>

<p>As I have tried to explain, your notion of “supply and demand” is bogus in this case. The number of top SAT scorers is not even enough to fill a quarter of the seats at Cornell. There aren’t thousands of kids running around with those grades. The problem is that much of our culture has shifted value from actual, irrefutable educational assessments (such as standardized testing, and GPAs), to the subjective, intangible factors. </p>

<p>Pay attention to the 1:20 minute mark in this video:<a href=“College Admissions: Inside the Decision Room - YouTube”>College Admissions: Inside the Decision Room - YouTube. “The night before her AP Chemistry exam, she learned her father had an affair… with a 23 year old.” Yay! Lets admit! Really? REALLY? SHE GOT ADMITTED BECAUSE HER FATHER HAD AN AFFAIR? I don’t care how she might have been “emotionally affected” and “came out on top”. This is how we accept people into COLLEGE? It’s not therapy session, its college- frankly much of your future depends on where you go.</p>

<p>In addition, how can they know if she was close to her father or not? Maybe she studied so hard, that she didn’t even think of it during the exam, and broke down afterwards? </p>

<p>How are they going to base an entire seat on such a subjective, trivial, and personal factor? Look, is it my friend’s fault that his father did not have an affair? That he was not an URM? That none of his relatives died during his high school career? Those few seconds in that admissions video should give you a perfect idea of what nonsense colleges find attractive nowadays. Pathetic. Absolutely disgusting.</p>

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<p>Please substantiate how moving from “actual, irrefutable educations assessments” to subjective, intangible factors is a “problem” in our culture. And “irrefutable” - please.</p>

<p>You have not given one iota of proof that your “friend” was unfairly denied admission to four Ivy league schools. And btw, there may not be thousands of 2400’s, but there are thousands upons thousands upon THOUSANDS of kids with top grades and very very high SATs.</p>

<p>OP, it is indeed unfortunate that you are so disgusted by the absolutely pathetic, nonsensical admissions practices of the top colleges in the country. May I assume you won’t be applying out of sheer revulsion? </p>

<p>Perhaps you can found your own elite university that admits solely on standardized test scores and GPA. That will do nicely to stamp out the risk-taking, creative-thinking, resilient and persevering, world-changing attitudes of students who benefit from the holistic process. You might just be able to get rid of athletes, minorities, and disadvantaged students as well.</p>

<p>@warriordaughter… what? I’ve already applied to college. How else do you think I developed a “sheer revulsion” of the process? Tell me how any of those qualities applies to an athlete more than it does for a student that got a 2360 on the SAT. Why is it that when I say that my friend got a 2360 and a 4.0 GPA, everyone has such a negative visceral reaction to it? If I were to tell you that he was an all-star quarterback, or lead scorer on the basketball team, why does that command more respect in your eyes? There is a double standard in our society and is reflected in the admissions process. I don’t want to get rid of those groups. </p>

<p>Minority students have as much capability of getting into a good college, and thereby “diversifying” the college population. Why does it have to be forced? I never understood the concept of HBCs, isn’t that clearly rejecting a certain group of people?</p>

<p>For disadvantaged students, help should be given from the BEGINNING. Free advanced tutoring should be made available ONLY to these kids. If their parents are not there for them, there needs to be more immediate care by child services. And the education of these children should be stressed. Nonetheless, the number of truly"disadvantaged" kids applying to Ivy Leagues is small.</p>

<p>@Nrdsb4, I am not in their admissions committee, so I have no evidence to give you. How is it a problem? Do you not see government officials come out on a constant basis touting the need for math and science? Why do you think that is? It’s because the products of our colleges are absolute MORONS in science and math!! And all we an do is whine about how China and India are taking our jobs…</p>

<p>Data from Level Playing Field Institute:</p>

<p>“The World Economic Forum ranks the United States 52nd in the quality of mathematics and science education, and 5th (and declining) in overall global competitiveness.
The United States ranks 27th in developed nations in the proportion of college students receiving undergraduate degrees in science or engineering”</p>

<p>That’s how its hurting our country.</p>

<p>jsmike, FOR THE LAST TIME: you can choose to apply to colleges that only care about test scores and GPAs. (Your “friend” can, too.) There are some in this country, more in others. </p>

<p>Please let us know when you are done with your ridiculous tantrum.</p>

<p>It doesn’t “command more respect” unless we know more about the kid. Same as we don’t know about your friend and don’t find his “stats” tell the whole story, either. (I think, by now you must know that.) Surprised that, through all these posts, you still seem thunderstruck. </p>

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<p>That is actually funny. The “negative visceral reaction” is actually YOURS because the reaction you’ve gotten to your “friend’s” 2360 and 4.0 GPA was a big fat yawn. </p>

<p>^Exactly.</p>

<p>I think we are only beginning to see the result of the “everyone gets a trophy” approach to child-rearing/school/sports/activities. And it’s scary.</p>

<p>It rankles that four students from your “friend’s” high school got into Cornell, but he didn’t. It’s possible they didn’t get into Tufts, but he did. (By the way, conrgratulations to him on his many acceptances!)</p>

<p>I do agree with other posters, that VP of a youth group, secretary of the math club, and “lots of extracurriculars” is not a “perfect candidate” to elite colleges. </p>

<p>I don’t think there’s any proof of bias. Elite colleges take recommendations, essays and interviews seriously. I do wonder what the recommendations looked like. Arrogance and inflexibility are not good traits to display.</p>

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<p>Really? You never understood the concept? I find that hard to believe for someone who got a 2400 SAT. HBCs were founded primarily during segregation, when black students were by and large not welcome at white colleges. White (and any other non-black) students are welcome to apply to and attend HBCs, however, and many do. In fact, HBCs are actively recruiting Asian, white and Hispanic students now.</p>

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<p>No one has a “negative visceral reaction” to a student with great grades and test scores. The problem is that grades and test scores make up such a small part of a person; as all of the previous posts point out again and again, colleges are looking for people with stories who will be leaders and contributors on campus. They are not looking for the kid with perfect scores who keeps his head down and just does everything asked of him. They are looking for the kid with passions and talents who has applied these talents in and out of the classroom, who shows promise and persistence and determination. I would much rather be in a classroom with the latter than the former.</p>

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<p>This is so much easier flippantly said than done. Free advanced tutoring available ONLY to disadvantaged students? I work as an SAT/English tutor, and let me tell you, most of my clients are quite wealthy and have parents who are willing to pay for any extra help the kids might need (English tutoring, personal coaching for the SAT, personal trainer for basketball, private French lessons). </p>

<p>I also work as a volunteer at a low-performing, mostly Hispanic Los Angeles elementary school. It’s hard to get “advanced tutoring” when your parents can’t speak English, much less help you with your homework or find extra tutoring. I see kids in 4th, 5th, 6th grade still struggling to read because their teacher has 30 other kids in the classroom and staff’s being cut due to funding so no one has time to help them learn. The support system simply isn’t there. Child services gets the kids out of dangerous situations, they don’t teach the kids to read. There are far too many children struggling academically for there to be a prayer that more government early intervention would be effective. </p>

<p>Want to know why the number of truly disadvantaged kids applying to the Ivies is small? The older brothers and sisters of the kids I work with aren’t taking the SATs, much less getting “unfairly” accepted to all the Ivies. They’re getting pregnant, dropping out of high school, getting mixed up in gangs, working to support their families. At best, they’re maybe going to community college or a local directional public. If a student can come from that background, score high on standardized testing, get excellent grades, and be a leader in his school, heck yes he has a bright future. And no, I don’t begrudge him “my spot” at an elite college. He earned it.</p>

<p>It surprises me a bit that anyone would consider their SAT score representative of “hard work”, although I suppose some people put much more effort into that particular test than they ought to. Taking so much pride in one’s ability to quickly work out logic problems is no less vain than bragging about one’s height or attractiveness.</p>

<p>I can’t have spent more than 24 hours total (registration, prep, taking the test itself) to obtain 2360 SAT score … meanwhile I know people who have invested over a hundred times as much time and effort into the cello, or rowing, or dealing with their family situation. I’m also not sure that the marginal amount of work separating a 3.8 GPA from a 4.0 is any greater than that needed to make the varsity hockey team or to found a local charity. </p>

<p>@OHMomof2, Oh mom, if you had looked at any other posts you would see that my friend got a 2360 SAT score, not me. </p>

<p><a href=“Morehouse College”>http://www.forbes.com/colleges/morehouse-college/&lt;/a&gt; </p>

<p>95.65% Black or African American
0.33% White
0.04% Asian/ Pacific Islander</p>

<p>Wow what active recruitment of whites and asians!! Seriously, do you people just make this stuff up? It is clear from this number and previous year’s demographics that Morehouse College (to name one HBCU), does not practice the affirmative action that all other colleges hold so dear. Why is there this double standard? Don’t give me the “repayment for slavery” nonsense. Why can’t we all be held to one standard and have the same opportunities for an education?</p>

<p>@jsmike123qwe wrote: “Why is there this double standard? Don’t give me the “repayment for slavery” nonsense.”</p>

<p>Can’t wait to read the replies on this one. lol </p>