<p>And those exit ops only arise if you come from a good group within your bank and you're a top ranked analyst. So its not as if all bankers are given the best opportunities in the world.</p>
<p>gonsenheim></p>
<p>Where to start.</p>
<p>A) First of all Steve Cohen didn't do tri arb. I am guessing you are talking about currency tri arb. Cohen was involved in options arb at the start of his career. There is nothing once in a lifetime about a tri arb trade (the very nature of that trade makes it a common anomaly although it doesn't exist anymore to be profitable). Check up on your facts. </p>
<p>B)Flow traders are paid based on volume. Prop traders are paid strictly on the money they make. Prop=proprietary aka bank's money. The bank isn't gonna be happy when you have a loss but all that resulted from spread loss (aka you did a lot of volume). </p>
<p>You are obviously not connected to the industry. The past year was THE BIGGEST payday for Wall Street banks (and primarily to traders...Lehman, GS all had their desks hit records). </p>
<p>Get your facts straight before posting.</p>
<p>I don't understand why the topic creator would automatically assume that kids would grow up as snobs or that the spouse would be more likely to have an affair. That's a brash and unfair assumption. Why do the rules change if someone is a corporate lawyer, or a neurosurgeon? Obnoxiousness and arrogance transcend 'profession of parent', and anyone who'd have an affair already has issues.</p>
<p>On another note, many people have misconceptions about I-banking. I'm not even in college, but I've done my fair share of reading. Pitchbooks and coma-inducing spreadsheets every night until 2AM, a complete lack of a social life, and health issues just to name a few plague analyst/associate bankers. Many people choose only to hear the pros: money.</p>
<p>For others, notably those who actually KNOW what they're getting into, it's a case of working hard to reap a greater reward later in life. A job post grad school in a PE firm is basically a good job for the rest of your career, which will most likely last until you're 40 anyway.</p>
<p>Basically, there are those who go into i-banking knowing exactly what they're getting themselves into and are better for it, and those who are in for two years of hell.</p>
<p>What about working in Management consulting. First, could working at Mckinsey or Bain get you into Hedge funds, private equity later. Second, how does management consulting compare in terms of stress and compensation to I banking.</p>
<p>Management consulting can lead to good exit opportunities. Not many MCs are going to be going into hedge funds but there will be some who go into private equity and probably more who go into venture capital. One popular thing is for MCs to move to positions with fortune 500 companies, I believe that Bain & Co has one of the highest rates for Bain alums becoming executives at F500s.</p>
<p>The stress for management consulting would come from the fact that you're traveling a lot because most places make you work on site, I heard it amounts to you traveling maybe 4 days out of every week. The work though is more interesting than banking because you're always working with different companies and you're solving problems. Compensation wise it will be a bit less than banking and will never reach as high as banks.</p>
<p>It seems like a lot of partners at these places make over a million a year. Also whats it like being an executive at a F500. Would it be a better environment, in terms of stress, compensation, pressure? Who gets more respect in the bussiness world, consultants or Ibankers.</p>
<p>"Compensation wise it will be a bit less than banking "
it is a lot less that banking....the partner is like the highest level and they make a million a year (which is big money) but MD's at BB banks make like god knows what amount of money...(depending on the bonus)</p>
<p>Vampiro, I was talking about when you're at the entry level in consulting.</p>
<p>The exit ops for consultants are pretty comparable to those for bankers so they in the end can achieve similar salaries (going into PE or VC).</p>
<p>Fortune 500 environment is usually better because of less hours.</p>
<p>As for who gets more respect, that depends who your talking to. Some companies will be annoyed at the rates charged because sometimes the advice that the bankers and consultants give wont help that much. Howerever, a lot of famous people have their children who do stints in either one. McKinsey for instance has Chelsea Clinton employed.</p>
<p>how did you guys find out so much about the finance field while still being in high school?
I mean, I'm quite amazed</p>
<p>Chelsea Clinton also went to Stanford.</p>
<p>neutral> Actually I have seen plenty of misinformation being spread here.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Chelsea Clinton also went to Stanford.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>And Oxford.</p>
<p>I never said the sons and daughters of famous people went to bad schools.</p>
<p>Therefore I don't see signs of nepotism in this case.</p>
<p>Listen high schoolers, shouldn't you be listening to Fallout Boy instead of automatically assuming you'll be able to reach partner and make millions? </p>
<p>Seriously, do you have any idea how hard it is to just get an INTERNSHIP at even a second tier investment bank doing back-end research? I don't care how high your GPA in senior year is. Do you even know what an equity or a derivative is? (hint, not the power rule) </p>
<p>Having worked for a summer internship at a top-tier investment bank, flying back between Toronto/New York, and well as being offered a full-time position upon graduation, I can safely say almost none of you have any idea what you're trying to talk about.</p>
<p>Naming off banks is one thing, working for one is another.</p>
<ol>
<li><p>It is NOT PRESTIGIOUS! YOU ARE TREATED LIKE CRAP 17 HOURS A DAY DOING PITCHBOOKS. You do financial modelling on excel, a lot of it. And it isn't that fun and exciting. You also meet with clients and stuff, but its mostly trying to suck up and tell them that you are the best man for the job.</p></li>
<li><p>STOP THINKING YOU ARE AWESOME. No one cares who you are, even associates who graduated from the ivy league aren't treated like little princes like they were back in newport or greenwich. </p></li>
<li><p>The pay is good, but never work for the money. If you want to work for money, go do something else. This isn't the type of work environment that fosters a "I rule at everything" attitude. Try working 15 hours a week, then getting slapped with papers and your boss saying "you're working the weekend". You get essays every couple months. Boo hoo.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>One of my best friends was working for BCG (all you wannabes should know who they are) this past summer, and while he loves it, he says a lot of his friends have a lot of misconceptions as to actually WHAT consulting is.</p>
<p>Question: Do any of you know WHAT an investment bank does?</p>
<p>don't listen to him; it's not that hard, and it's a huge advantage and a good thing that you're thinking about it young</p>
<p>caboose...just tell me one thing which is out of the world or in general tell me any field where in order to do good the person does not have to face hardships at any point of his life....
lets C
eing a soccer player----u have to train many many hours...
starting a company---u need to do a lot of research
inventing something-----sleepless nights at the lab
becoming a doctor(a good one)----many many hours at med school
same way Investment banker----lots of hours during the first stage of your life.....
I guess its pretty much the same as everything else.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Question: Do any of you know WHAT an investment bank does?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Yes. </p>
<p>
[quote]
Do you even know what an equity or a derivative is? (hint, not the power rule)
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Okay. Let me ask you a question: Does only hedging the delta in a trading book ensure you are market neutral? How will you hedge your book on a real time basis? </p>
<p>Answer that. If you can't I will take it up. Oh yea if you think I don't know what I am talking about fire ANY derivatives question you have that you understand yourself. So unless you understand what dispersion trading is (well was as it has lost a lot of its edge now) don't ask a question like that. BTW you worked in IBD I assume, not a prop deriv or stat arb desk. Stop tossing around stuff that even you have no idea what you are talking about to impress some "clueless" high school kids.</p>
<p>Oh yea, there is nothing called "an equity". Its not a single thing. You can say an equity investment, equity trading. Nothing is "an" equity. For example, you would never say "Give me an equity", you may say "I need equity funding".</p>
<p>However, I will agree with you on some of the points (CC has a few "prospective IB toolbags" but going monkey nuts isn't any way of handling it.</p>
<p>Caboose, while I can appreciate your general stance, I think in certain instances, you go too far. </p>
<p>
[quote]
1. It is NOT PRESTIGIOUS! YOU ARE TREATED LIKE CRAP 17 HOURS A DAY DOING PITCHBOOKS. You do financial modelling on excel, a lot of it. And it isn't that fun and exciting. You also meet with clients and stuff, but its mostly trying to suck up and tell them that you are the best man for the job.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Whether you think it is prestigious or fun is, I suppose, a value judgment. What I will say is that Ibanking (especially at a bulge-bracket firm) is MORE fun and MORE prestigious than the vast majority of jobs out there. The truth is, there are plenty of very crappy and unprestigious jobs out there. </p>
<p>For example, I know one girl who is trying to make it as a Hollywood actress. That means she's travelling the typical route of an budding actress - meaning doing a lot of waitressing, bartending, parking cars, etc. while auditioning for crappy tiny roles in no-name projects all to make a name for herself. I think she told me that in her last audition, she basically spent a whole week auditioning for various roles in an upcoming movie with about a thousand other candidates for 5 roles, and she (like 995 others) didn't get a role. </p>
<p>The major perk that I see in investment banking is that it is highly prestigious, relative to other industries. Not only that, but the work experience is highly portable. For example, suppose you don't make it to MD. Heck, support you don't even make it past analyst. At least you can still parley that experience into some other industry to work for the finance department of some big company. What if my friend doesn't make it as an actress? Honestly, what is she going to do with all her years of waitressing and bartending and auditioning for bit roles? </p>
<p>
[quote]
3. The pay is good, but never work for the money. If you want to work for money, go do something else. This isn't the type of work environment that fosters a "I rule at everything" attitude. Try working 15 hours a week, then getting slapped with papers and your boss saying "you're working the weekend". You get essays every couple months. Boo hoo.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Actually, I would say that Ibanking is one of the few industries you should go into if you like money. There are plenty of people out there working extremely hard, and still not making the kind of money that even a first-year bulge bracket analyst can make. For example, I know law students who basically killed themselves studying in law school, who then got law firm associate positions at major law firms, in which they are also killing themselves...and they are STILL not making the kind of money that even an IB analyst makes. </p>
<p>Vampiro raised the alternative of medicine, and that's a pretty good counterexample. A first year Wall Street bulge bracket analyst can make almost as much money in his first year right out of college as even an experienced internist can, and that analyst doesn't have to survive medical school and residency, which are obviously hellish. For example, the BLS reports that experienced internists (those with over 1 year experience), made a mean compensation of 166k in 2004. That's not that much more than first-year IB analysts make, and that internist had to go through medical school and residency training with which he was also surely enduring 15 hour work days and putting up with lots of crap. Even entering a more lucrative medical specialty like surgery or anesthesiology still makes you chump change compared to the kind of money you can make in banking. </p>
<p><a href="http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos074.htm#earnings%5B/url%5D">http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos074.htm#earnings</a></p>
<p>So you say that people who want money should go something else, and that begs the question - what else is out there? With the exception of entrepreneurship, which also tends to involve long hours - honesty, what other industry gives you the earning potential that banking does? </p>
<p>Look, I agree with your central point that people should investigate the industry further and find out whether it is for them. I certainly don't advocate that everybody should enter IB. A lot of people hate it, and obviously if you hate it, you're going to do poorly in it. But my simple point is, there are a LOT of crappy jobs out there. IB may not be the greatest thing since sliced bread, but it's better than a lot of other things you could be doing.</p>