Why do so many people fail AP exams?

Parents Forum
21

<p>I think AP exams serve a great purpose</p>

<p>In many high schools, “A” grades are given out like candy. </p>

<p>I know. My wife was a Calculus teacher, and she was under tremendous pressure not to give out any bad grades, because the kids taking Calculus were the top kids in the school, and the high school had a vested interest in their top kids getting into good colleges. If a kid got a “C” on a test, the parent would invariably call, blaming the teacher, and demand a higher grade, rather than asking what their kid could do to actually EARN a higher grade. And the principal would call her in, because the parent also complained to the principal, and would basically force my wife to give out a higher grade than truly deserved.</p>

<p>So a kid might be given a “B” or an “A” by the teacher as his final grade, and a college might well think the kids knows Calculus. But then, the game is up, because the kid has to take the Calculus AP exam, and there is no way to bluff your way through that. When the kid gets a “1” or a “2”, a college will learn that the kid is really not as qualified as originally thought, just by looking at his transcipt.</p>

<p>In my opinion, that is why so many people hate standardized tests. Because they expose the current system for what it is. Kids who are valecdictorians at their high school, but only get an 1800 SAT, don’t like the SAT much, because it tends to expose the fact that they are really not that top notch from an academic standpoint, when compared to kids from stronger high schools. </p>

<p>Because people don’t like the results of the tests, they declare them “no good”.</p>

<p>It is my understanding that in Europe, colleges go much more by standardized test scores, and much less by “soft” data, such as ECs.</p>

22

<p>Most American HS kids haven’t mastered the extreme basic academic skills and that has had a cascading effect even on most of the “top kids” at most high schools…unless they attended a rigorous public magnet like Stuyvesant, Bronx Science, Hunter College High, or TJSST or the more academically rigorous private/prep schools.* </p>

<ul>
<li>I was shocked at how even some well-reputed private/prep schools had more lax graduation/academic requirements than my HS. One older undergrad classmate was able to complete his prep school’s science requirement by taking two years of “rocks for jocks” type science classes without any lab requirements. His knowledge of US history was also so spotty that I had to give him a quick tutorial because it was causing him problems with advanced material related to his major…and he scored a 5 on that AP.<br></li>
</ul>

<p>

</p>

<p>Unfortunately, even getting a 4 or a 5 on APs is no guarantee a given student will excel in real college courses related to the AP subjects. </p>

<p>Saw far too many former high school superstars with loads of 4s and 5s struggle to get Cs or even flunk courses related to those exams. On the other hand, I had no issues in the very same courses despite never having been allowed to take AP courses…or bothering to take the AP exams because I didn’t think they’d be worth my time considering the credit limitations of the colleges I applied to. </p>

<p>Turned out I was correct on that score…especially considering I was able to skip some intro/intermediate courses and go straight into the advanced courses anyways due to the extensive outside readings/studying I did on those subjects on my own time throughout my adolescence. </p>

<p>

</p>

<p>They’re not standardized tests like what we’re used to here. For starters, they tend to prefer essay questions requiring critical thinking/analysis rather than multiple choice/short answers. </p>

<p>Incidentally, the prevalence of multiple choice exams was a big pet peeve with several Profs who are from various European states or were educated on that continent.</p>

23

<p>I think a lot of it is that AP courses are now taken by kids who really aren’t ready for college material, and that means they get watered down and really don’t cover the material properly. And sometimes they just are taught by incompetent teachers. The Stats teacher at our high school was my son’s favorite math teacher - he traditional finishes the AP curriculum by November and then teachers real stats the rest of the year. His students do very well. His pre-calc class took the AB Calc exam in June, just a little too late to have taken it for real.</p>

24

<p>There is a great deal of pressure put on schools to increase the number of students who take AP courses and tests. In some cases the students are not really ready to take the test but students and parents are told that the student will still be more prepared for college having experienced a more rigorous course in high school. In other cases, the teachers may not really be qualified or experienced enough to provide good preparation for the test. My S’11 is majoring in computer science in college. He loved his junior year AP comp sci course and had an A+ throughout the year. However, the teacher was a computer applications/business teacher, not a math or computer science teacher. My son didn’t do any self-prep and found that the material on the exam was nothing like he had done in class. He did not pass the AP exam.</p>

25

<p>Besides bad teachers & unmotivated students, there’s also the fact that a lot of families don’t support their student’s educational goals that same way that people on CC do. It’s hard to do well in school when you’re hungry, haven’t had medical care or are dealing with dysfunctional family issues.</p>

<p>In high school, a lot of students are working. And not just a little 10 hour/week job. I was routinely working 25+ hours/week back in the stone ages of HS. I’m not sure if studying for an AP test would have been at the top of my list of things to do, especially since my guidance office wouldn’t have explained the potential benefit (since they didn’t do that when they told me I made NMSF) and my parents wouldn’t have even known what I was taking (plus my mom had grown up in a different educational system.)</p>

26

<p>So many factors affect an AP score. </p>

<p>DS took AP Physics this year with a teacher who is known for not preparing his students very well. He became ill early December and it took until February for the school to replace him (if was unclear whether he would be coming back or not) with another less then stellar teacher who went back to the beginning as far as class material. What angers me the most is the school never notified parents about the situation. When DS told me about it I did contact them but they told me they were having difficulty finding a replacement.</p>

<p>Needless to say, DS tried to self-teach the material and he is relatively confident that he did quite poorly.</p>

27

<p>My son just took the test. He did not feel he did well enough to pass, and he has gotten 4’s or 5’s on all of his other AP tests. I think self selection is one part of students in general not doing as well. He does not like math (but scores well in it) and so did not take AP Calc (which that teacher treats as if it were a college STEM calculus class- good for her!). His AP Stats teacher is known for poor preparation for the test (doesn’t cover all the material) and she is retiring and has her own case of senioritis. The school pays for the tests and the students must take them to pass the course, but they are graded on their work in the course. Of course, he could surprise himself, but his college needs a 4 for it to count so that is unlikely. At his high school, a grant pays any student who gets a 3 or over in a math or english AP $100 for each of these AP’s. It’s an inner city school, so the motivation is pretty effective. Just the teacher isn’t.</p>

28

<p>I just probably failed my stats test cause I got severely dehydrated and had to go to the hospital after the multiple choice. So I’m a statistic now I guess</p>

29

<p>Well I just probably failed my test because I got severely dehydrated during the test and had to go to the hospital. I only finished the multiple choice part but now I’m a statistic.</p>

30

<p>Could another reason for the lack of true college preparation for HS AP students be the AP grading scale? Looking at my D’s 4th Q grades I saw a D on a practice AP test (65% I think). I ask her about it and she said that was a good score because it meant she got a 5 on it in AP terms. If they are handing out 5s for 65s, then no wonder some kids struggle when they get to the corresponding college course. </p>

<p>That easy scale also means that it is really sad that more HS kids don’t pass. When all it takes is a 40% (or whatever it is) to get a 3, then wow, how do so many get 1s and 2s.</p>

<p>Edit- I just thought of 1 more salient point. I recently came across my AP Eng results and found I got a 2 which really surprised me since I got straight As in college English and have always been a voracious reader and excellent writer.</p>

31

<p>""
Yup remember this is the generation where everyone is above average and deserves to get an award.""</p>

<p>Some of our schools are requiring everyone to take an AP class.
Some schools are even telling them which ones they have to take.</p>

<p>If Ap is supposed to bequivalent to college study, why would we require all sophomores to take AP geography? (when only 40% of them took AP Euro, which is no longer offered)
Unless of course we don’t think Human Geography is as rigorous as Euro, and that it isn’t any more difficult than the regular 10th gd social studies class the school used to offer.
But in that case, what is the point of taking AP?</p>

32

<p>D took the stats test and found it to be easier then the class has been. Her teacher is not very strong at teaching so has done a lot of prep on her own.
The test that she felt was hard was the AP Chem test last week. </p>

<p>I also think that by the time you get to the end of these tests the kids get tired. And some kids do get test anxiety and don’t do well on standardized tests. Other kids excel on them, one of my D’s friends is NMF but barely made top 10% of the class because of the day to day work required in class.</p>

33

<p>My AP English Language class this year was filled with people who barely speak English or scored <450 on each of SAT CR/Wr. We would be doing practice essays and a girl behind me would be translating the prompt into Spanish for her friend. The president of the club that fundraised for our tests would misspell the most basic words. </p>

<p>Yet everyone still took the AP test.</p>

34

<p>

</p>

<p>From what I’ve heard in the news…many of the mainstream public/private schools which do this are doing so to pad their stats to boost their HS’s academic rating. Don’t really get why ratings only examine percentage of students taking AP classes/exams and not mainly percentage who score 4 or better on AP exams.* </p>

<p>*Many colleges…especially the well-respectable/elite ones tend to only grant credit for 4 or better…assuming they grant college credit for AP results period. The culture at my urban public magnet was also such that no one dared even admit they took an AP exam if they scored less than a 4…or sometimes even a 5 as doing so tended to bring the intelligence/academic creds of the “low scorer” into question by other classmates and even some teachers.</p>

35

<p>My sophomore son took the AP Stats exam yesterda as well and reported that it felt good; he thought he did well. His school is selective as to who gets into AP courses, however AP stats is unique in that it represents 2 distinct populations at his school: strong STEM sophomores who will ultimately take AP Calc BC (as seniors) and seniors who are relatively weaker in math/sciences and probably don’t care much about their scores given they already know where they’re going to college next year.</p>

<p>The teacher is excellent and her students usually do well. In the summer she is one of the graders for the AP stats test so she definitely has her course designed for success by the students.</p>

36

<p>Tons of reasons I see locally why failure rate so high. A lot of the top honor students that already are accepted into college have let senioritus take over are in big trouble in their classes looking at D’s & F’s. They are in a mad scramble to make up work or extra credit and will not crack 1 book for AP tests. Ivy league bound kids with a F last semester is not going to go over real well. Lots also have either major athletic commitments if they are going to continue in college, or have jobs to help generate money to pay for college.</p>

37

<p>In theory, a student who learned the material in an AP course need not study specifically for the AP test beyond what s/he would normally study for a final exam in the course.</p>

<p>Of course, if the student has senioritis and is barely able to make a C- in the AP course, s/he may not have learned it sufficiently to do well on the AP test.</p>

38

<p>Our school’s pass rate for AP tests is …0. No, I’m not exaggerating. That’s for English, calc, chem and bio. That these are AP classes is a joke. Parents are told “Johnny can get college credit”. No one is told that a test must be passed. The teachers don’t care about the pass rate, neither does the administration and apparently not the parents either.</p>

39

<p>

</p>

<p>I’ve known plenty of HS kids who had athletic commitments and/or had jobs working 20-30+ hours/week waiting tables or other physically demanding jobs to support their families and yet…had no issues getting 4s and 5s without having to put in more than several hours a week or two before the AP exam. </p>

<p>This wasn’t only at my urban public magnet, but also at several academic average/mediocre regular NYC/Boston area high schools. Moreover…many of the students weren’t necessarily straight-A/2400 SAT top 10% type students. </p>

<p>In the words of some AP teachers and those students…if you are struggling to such an extent you can’t juggle AP classes/exams, EC/athletic commitments, and/or afterschool jobs…you aren’t academically prepared to take AP courses.</p>

40

<p>I’ve barely studied for any of my tests and I’ve managed to pass all of the ones I’ve taken so far. (Even physics) I’m also pretty confident that I won’t fail any of my tests this year either. In fact, I’m preparing to take the AP Human Geography test tomorrow after NOT have taken the class. I know I’m very good at test taking (grades - not so much). But I think if you are having such a hard time with simple AP tests, I don’t see college as being that much better. People like that who simply don’t have time to study probably need to cut down on the amount of things they are involved in.</p>