<p>I have found that some schools place strong emphasis on class rank as an admission's factor. This is especially true for state schools,but I have seen it in private schools too.</p>
<p>I do understand that schools want to see how you did in comparison to the students in that school,but using it as a major factor makes no sense to me. If a student attends a top public or private high school or magnet school, they could be in the top 40% and be better than those in the top 10% at other high schools. Likewise, if they attends a horrible high school but end up in the top 10%-20%, they might be good or might be the "cream of the crap." Either way, class rank has little meaning. In fact, the better the highschool,the more class rank becomes meaningless.</p>
<p>Thus, I can't understand the emphasis on class rank. Can anyone enlighten me on this?</p>
<p>Class rank, grades, GPAs must be hard to compare from school to school. I guess that's why they use standardized tests like the SATs and ACT as an equalizer, but many don't feel this gives a true picture either. The all important application essays can be written by the applicant's parents, teachers, or hired professionals. Teacher recommendations can surely be subjective and tough to compare.</p>
<p>What SHOULD be the criteria for acceptance into a top college?</p>
<p>NOT class rank. I would use SAT2s, and GPAs. I don't have a problem for colleges using class rank as a factor IF they also consider the quality of the school and program that the students have taken. However, when they state that you have to be in the top 10% to be admitted or to get scholarships, regardless of your school and regardless of the toughness of the courses, I have a problem with that.</p>
<p>Class rank allows colleges to compare students from the same high school. It isn't always a fair assessment as programs within high schools can vary. My older D attended a high school with an IB program. She was in a different strand and her class rank reflected that. Did it matter to some colleges? Probably. But she still was accepted into the ivy of her choice.</p>
<p>At D#2's hs, students manipulate their class rank by doubling up on honors and AP online classes. I'm hoping the colleges can see through some of this nonsense when they look more closely at the transcript.</p>
<p>
[Quote]
My older D attended a high school with an IB program
[/Quote]
</p>
<p>Interestingly, in my D's IB magnet program they rank against entire district. So she is in the top 1% of the close to 10,000 students in the district. If she were ranked in her school, it would obviously be much lower.</p>
<p>Taxguy, I agree. If it is a competitive program, the rankings become meaningless especially if the kids game them as in wishingandhoping and my own D's school.</p>
<p>Class rank is important in the context of other factors such as gpa, SAT scores, course schedules, academic awards and academic ec's. It just gives a better all around picture of the applicant. </p>
<p>As others have said, class rank alone means little.</p>
<p>While there may be a few less than stellar schools that have some silly scholarship policies, most colleges put class rank in context. At my school, over 30% get into top 15 schools. Colleges know what it takes to do well at top high schools.</p>
<p>northeastmom - The online honors and APs are administered thru a state program free to public school students in this state. Some kids take 3-4 classes above their course work in conventional hs. The catch? Many selective colleges out of state do not count these classes. But they are factored into the school and state GPA.</p>
<p>I agree with posts 7 and 8. Nothing is in isolation. Class rank in context with other stats, with school profile AND with qualitative aspects such as recs & interview (if offered), and statements within application & the essay itself; they all figure in. Rank is important but by no means determinant. Our 4th highest student got into only Harvard & was rejected by Princeton & other Ivies. That student did not have a special hook or category. And that result would be contrasted with one of the Vals, who was w/listed at one Ivy & accepted at one LAC which was only this student's 3rd favorite choice. </p>
<p>I know the kind of school taxguy & others are talking about -- as to the "meaninglessness" of the ranking when it's so competitive, not to mention when large, too. We know of 3 nearby us (one public, 2 private), but several non-hooked students got into HYPS from each school this yr. In fact, the more competitive h.schools tend to have the more visible reputations among top colleges, & thus Admissions committees take this into account.</p>
<p>That said, definitely definitely some highly qualified students do not get admitted to schools of their choice, as we've all seen. When that happens, it's a general diversity factor within the broad sense of diversity, or differences so small between 2 students from one high school, as to make such a judgment call almost arbitrary on the adcom's part. This latter reality similarly spilled over into admissions into one of those <em>high schools</em> this year, with applications of qualified students being overwhelming enough to make admissions decisions objectively difficult, & possibly flawed.</p>
<p>I think the problem comes in where adcoms are not familiar w a particular hs. It is impossible to know all of the high schools when they have graduating classes of 100-150 students. Small high schools in our area have graduating classes that size. I know a friend of mine has a D that came out of a graduating class of around 35 (private hs). She had a 4.0, but her sat scores were well below 1200. She got into all of the competitive state schools she applied to bcs of her gpa, yet her sats were well below average for the schools she applied to. I would have thought the sats would put the 4.0 into perspective, but I don't think it did. Additionally, when my son interviewed at a LAC he told me that sat scores and gpa were important to them, but they did not inquire as to what type of hs he comes from. He got the feeling that it did not really matter to them. They did look at what classes he will take as a senior and they told him that they were pleased with his schedule.</p>
<p>Class rank slightly makes sense to me, with weighted grades. But my school doesn't weight, so my 3.93 with 8 AP classes puts me at a lower rank than my 4.0 peers with 1 AP class. Does this make sense at all? Sure, they'll look at my schedule, but the immediate 1st impression that I'm 18th in my class can't be that beneficial to me.</p>
<p>The school profile the school sends with your transcript should help your school be understood by the colleges (if your GC doesn't keep in touch with each of those colleges). If the colleges are convinced of the rigor of your school, I think the rank is less important.</p>
<p>I also understand that colleges may recompute GPAs & disregard the GPAs calculated by HS, weighting for APs & Honors & college courses, etc. & throwing out grades for "fluff" courses.</p>
<p>I have the opposing opinion here...l'm delighted that there are schools that look at class rank (along with all the other parts of the application). For my kiddo, that is her number one strength (top 5% and a top 10 student as well). Her GPA is also good (which, at our school, is how class rank is determined). Recommendations and ECs are great. SAT scores are above average but not stellar. With any kind of luck, the adcoms will look at her high school record (difficulty of courses, and grades) and consider the intensity of her work ethic. Her class rank works to her advantage.</p>
<p>Some kids can write essays on command and within 20 minutes. What exactly does that prove? That is my child's weak(er) point. Always best to get our prejudices out front early and beat the rush. </p>
<p>As to class rank, I can argue that within any given population , those students mastering the material better than their peers are the "top achievers" or most valuable player, if you will. </p>
<p>Being the top achiever in any given population is some indicator of work ethic, drive, determination. Considered in a vacuum it is an admittedly limited measure , but read in the context of an entire application packet, I would consider it of more value than some other factors (timed essays, legacy, anything else my kid doesn't have ;)). One idea behind such reasoning is apparent to me anyway. If this kid , within the limitations of her school whatever they may be, was one the top students, that is some indication that she will seek to perform at the top level at this college also. Be motivated to perform. </p>
<p>It certainly shows at least that. There are plenty of other opportunities in an app to show the same type of push, chutzpah, guts, drive. But in this instance , this kid shined. Now as the most selective schools appear to ding the unhooked BWRK for a tiny blemish on their butt, is it "fair" ? No. But it is equally unfair. As always, JMO.</p>
<p>I think curmudgeon has nailed it. (Drive, indeed.) Peer rank, & the consistency of that, would/should be looked at especially carefully for competitive high schools, BY a competitive college which may be a macrocosm of that high school. That's why Michele Hernandez made such a big deal about it in her A is For Admissions book. (I know she knows that the admissions scene is more complex now, but rank within rank continues to be valued as a litmus test by the upper level U's.)</p>
<p>They also do value the lone ranker, shall we say: those who resist a dominant slacker culture or malaise at a h.s. That does -- and should -- get recognized, i.m.o.</p>
<p>michelle also notes that rank is also viewed in context of the school and its size. If I recall, her break was a class size of 400+. </p>
<p>At an extremely competitive school (TJ, Stuy, New Trier), perhaps top 20% is just as good/better than Val at a small school. Val of a graduating class of 30 may not be of much help in acceptance.</p>
<p>"Val of a graduating class of 30 may not be of much help in acceptance."</p>
<p>This may indeed be true, but at very competitive small schools (like my D's with a graduating class of ~65-70, over 30% headed to Tier 1 LAC's and U's), ranking 15th (23%) isn't much of a hindrance, either, I would think.</p>
<p>Overall I would agree w Curmudgeon, but this thinking about class rank does not work at my son's competitive hs. In our neighborhood, the majority of kids are no longer kids. They sit in the classroom being privately tutored all summer long, and after school during the year too. It is ridiculous. Kids are pushed way too much. They are often feel disgraced by their family if they don't get into the ivies. I would not want my son's class rank to be a determining factor. I am glad that our hs does not rank.</p>
<p>quiltguru is correct -- or at least apparently in the eyes of the admissions committees of these very top-tier colleges that approximately <em>half</em> of my D's small graduating class were accepted to. Most of them received multiple acceptances to similar-level U's, by the way. Context/content is way more important than size -- judging from results.</p>