<p>AMG, i dont see why you would try for a 3.8 instead of a 4.0</p>
<p>I'd recommend shooting for a 3.82</p>
<p>B-schooler, where is the source of your average GPAs data? You won't get that working at a school's admissions office.</p>
<ul>
<li> At Princeton, the median GPA for the class of 1973 was 3.09; in 2000 it was 3.36
<ul>
<li>At Dartmouth, the average GPA has risen from 2.70 to 3.33 from 1967 to 2001</li>
<li>At Harvard, over the last three years, more than 50% of the grades awarded have been A’s</li>
<li>At Georgia Tech, the average overall GPA in Fall 1985 was 2.59; last Fall, it was 2.86</li>
</ul></li>
</ul>
<p>I found those statistics from this report here, dated april 2003, if that helps: <a href="http://www.facultysenate.gatech.edu/ASAFGF2003-042203-Attach4.ppt%5B/url%5D">http://www.facultysenate.gatech.edu/ASAFGF2003-042203-Attach4.ppt</a></p>
<p>other sources: National</a> Trends in Grade Inflation, American Colleges and Universities</p>
<p>
[quote]
If you examine addmissions statistics from the last 10 years or so, you'll see that as the average GPA for admitted students has fallen approximately 0.2-0.3 points, average GMAT scores have increased by 30-40 points. Over the same period, the fraction of students at top MBA programs with undergraduate degrees in the technical fields has risen from about under 15% to about 25%.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I don't know where you're getting this data from, but avg GPAs have not fallen 0.2-0.3 in the last 10 years, they have actually gone up ~ 0.1 as grade inflation has generally increased over this time. GMAT scores have gone up because of the transition from a paper/pencil version to a computer version and because the scale has somewhat changed. A 710 GMAT in 1997 was in the 98%ile and in 2005 a 710 GMAT was only the 94%ile.</p>
<p>I posted on a thread in the engineering forum earlier this year on the same topic of engineering and science GPA's compared to liberal arts, humanities, etc., GPA's. I left my sources on the thread and don't feel like finding them again, but it is very easy to come across the information to prove that a GPA gap exists between technical majors and non-technical majors. The average engineering GPA is far lower than the average overall university GPA. I do not think that it is incorrect to assume that this has something to do with the lower entering GPA's of B-Schools compared to Medicine or Law School.</p>
<p>I would agree with you about Law School, but presumably those going to Med School are taking many of the same science classes as Engineering majors.</p>
<p>Perhaps they take some bio classes and a chem class or (maybe) two. But I would be highly surprised if many people going into medicine take any calc based physics classes, any math classes above basic algebra or (maybe) a calculus class, or any computer science. When you say hard sciences, typically my first thoughts would go towards physics and chem., I don't know that bio is considered a hard science, and it is certainly not a very difficult subject in my opinion. Therefore, unless the med student is majoring in chem or physics in undergrad the point you make is moot. I am fairly confident that the undergrad major of choice for med students is bio, this comes nowhere close to an engineering, physics, math, cs, or perhaps even finance, accounting, or econ major in the level of difficulty in my opinion. The majority of people going into a top MBA program have one of these degrees, therefore, lowering the GPA of B-School admits. If you look at the stats for most top B-Schools, (almost) always the greatest majority of undergrad majors is in engineering. The undergrad major of choice for law schools seems to be humanities or liberal arts, I don't think there is an argument in the level of difficulty here.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Perhaps they take some bio classes and a chem class or (maybe) two. But I would be highly surprised if many people going into medicine take any calc based physics classes, any math classes above basic algebra or (maybe) a calculus class, or any computer science.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I don't know much about med school admissions, but I do know that they take a minimum of four chemistry classes, two calculus classes, two physics classes, in addition to a lot of biology. I would personally say that a biology major is more difficult than economics or certainly business. </p>
<p>
[quote]
If you look at the stats for most top B-Schools, (almost) always the greatest majority of undergrad majors is in engineering.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I don't know where you're getting this from. A quick glance at the Harvard, Stanford, Wharton, Kellogg, Tuck, UChicago web sites all show class profiles of more social science / humanities / business majors than engineering majors, which is consistent with what I have seen historically.</p>
<p>
[quote]
The undergrad major of choice for law schools seems to be humanities or liberal arts, I don't think there is an argument in the level of difficulty here.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>There was a study on a thread on here recently showing that philosophy majors had the third highest GRE scores of any major.</p>
<p>
[quote]
There was a study on a thread on here recently showing that philosophy majors had the third highest GRE scores of any major.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>And I wonder what the two highest were?</p>
<p>If you have a link to HBS or Stanford that lists the undergrad majors of their students, I will be happy to take a look, however, I cannot find the info for those schools. As for other top programs,</p>
<p>MIT Sloan
CS - 33
Econ - 85
Engr - 167
Science - 38
100% of students have one of the undergrad majors I mentioned, and 51% have an engineering degree</p>
<p>Kellogg
CS - 43
Econ - 99
Engr - 125
Humanities - 46
Soc Science - 85
72% have aforementioned undergrad degree, 31% have an Engineering degree</p>
<p>Wharton
CS - 55
Econ - 134
Engr - 128
Science - 36
Soc Sci - 60
85% have aforementioned degree, 31% have an engineering degree</p>
<p>Berkeley
CS - 19
Econ - 45
Engr - 61
Hum - 14
Sci -13
Soc Sci - 24
78% have aforementioned degree, 35% have an engineering degree</p>
<p>Chicago
CS - 36
Econ - 130
Engr - 87
Hum - 68
Sci - 44
Soc Sci - 25
76% have aforementioned degree, 22% have an engineering degree</p>
<p>These stats go well beyond proving that most incoming b-school students have a humanities or social science majors. Almost every school here list engineering as the preferred undergrad major that they accept. As for the med students taking calc two and four years of chem, I will take your word on it. That is more than I would think, but I dont really want to go looking for the info. As for bio being harder than finance, accounting, or econ - I guess it is a matter of opinion, but I disagree.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Almost every school here list engineering as the preferred undergrad major that they accept.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Sources ? I have seen a lot of engineering students wanting to do MBA, but I've never seen any schools listing engineering as their preferred major.</p>
<p>
[quote]
As for bio being harder than finance, accounting, or econ - I guess it is a matter of opinion,
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Biology majors besides biology classes, have to take calculus, physics, chemistry. These are by nature the hardest science classes and to be a successful applicant to med schools, one has to get almost all A's.</p>
<p>Finance, accounting, econ classes are mostly math based. Anyone who has ability to do math can do them all.</p>
<p>All of the information regarding admissions stats are as stated in the USNEWS annual report, as reported and verified by school records. Look up USNEWS top graduate schools. Every year the stats are updated.</p>
<p>I am not trying to say by any means that people going to business school are smarter than med school students. I am only replying to the poster that mentioned that perhaps the reason b-school admissions have a lower GPA is because they often have a more rigorous undergraduate degree. Of course this is not going to be the only reason and nor is it true all of the time. Likewise, I am not saying that biology or humanities majors are easy, only that I wouldn’t compare them to an engineering, cs, math, chem, or physics degree. Given that many b-school students have one of these majors, it would seem likely to me that it has some impact on the average GPA of b-school admits. Take it or leave it, it’s only my opinion. I’d rather not argue the point to death. </p>
<p>PS
I am also not using the word ‘preferred’ to mean the school officially states that they prefer engineering students. I simply look at the data and can see that the most common undergrad major of top b-school admits is engineering. This is most likely because b-schools like to see the quantitative ability of students.</p>