Why Does It Seem Colleges Don't Care What Your EFC Is????

I’m not sure about the distinction between @brantly’s “Full need with limited loans” and “Full need with loans and grants list.” I tried the calculator in #37 for a school on both lists and the school on the “limited loans” list had a slightly lower parental contribution but a higher loan and more work study. These are peer schools.

Full need with limited loans school:
$18,300 Student and Parent Contribution
$51,100 Need-based Scholarship
$2,800 Student Work-Study
$3,500 Expected Student Loan

Full need with loans and grants school:
$19,800 Student and Parent Contribution
$50,000 Need-based Scholarship
$1,700 Student Work-Study
$2,000 Expected Student Loan

@BelknapPoint - I guess my question is, would someone be able to qualify for both a non-subsidized federal loan AND a subsidized loan at the same time? Seems counterintuitive.

Doesn’t everyone that qualifies for subsidized also qualify for non-subsidized? The maximum subsidized is only a portion of the maximum allowed Stafford. Like $3500 subsidized the first year of the $5500 allowed loan amount.

@BelknapPoint

I don’t think that was the definition of “limited loans” @brantly was using. I took it to mean (again, using Wesleyan as an example) schools that attempt to eliminate the necessity for loans for families below a certain income (as opposed to, the colleges listed just above them that meet full need with no loans.) Any other interpretation leads to the confusion you rightly point out.

Yes.

There was no definition provided for the term “limited loans;” I was giving an example based on one interpretation. In a broad sense, “limited loans” when applied to meets full need schools can mean that a school does not include the maximum available federal direct loan amount when financial aid packages are put together.

Even at schools that have a no loan policy, the student can take the $5500 loan. If all need has been met through grants and work study, the entire loan will be unsubsidized. The student could request the work study be changed to the subsidized loan amount and then just get a non-WS job.

In the 2 examples above, the grant amount won’t change but there can be a shifting of loans, SW, parental contribution amounts to reach the COA.

Understood. But, I attempting to make the case for the simplest explanation which is that the word “limited” applies to the number or category of grantees - not the type of award. As you yourself pointed out, anyone can qualify for a non-subsidized loan. But, the same is not true for subsidized federal loans which are means tested and thereby limited (there’s that word again) to students deemed to qualify for financial aid.

The one thing the schools in Brantly’s “limited loan” list all have in common is 0-loan debt for a certain category of student, typically those whose families make below a certain level of income.

As we see, it depends in what context we want to apply the word “limited.” And, qualifying (or not) for part of a federal direct loan being subsidized is predicated on how much need has been met – more goes into than the student’s EFC.

I was typing quickly and just used the phrase “limited loans” to be a catch-all for a bunch of policies. I got the list from a reputable website that CC will not permit me to link to here. Colleges in this group have policies that may include:
a) no loans if HHI is under a certain amount. For example: $125k for Colgate, $60k for Cornell.
b) A scaled loan policy such as at Lehigh: Aid is loan-free if your parents earn less than $75,000. Loans are capped at $5,000 per academic year, or at Williams: Aid is loan-free if parents earn less than $75,000 with “typical assets.” For everyone else, loans are capped at $4,000 per academic year.
c) no loans only for in-state students who qualify (UNC)

There’s really nothing an OOS university offers that your in-state school can give for a fraction of the price. It’s not worth paying triple going out of state.

There are some states that want oos students and will give plenty of merit aid to them, even to the point that they can end up being cheaper than in state options for students with expensive in state options.

True. My son applied to three out of state schools and 2 of them have already come in to be about the same price as our in-state flagship after merit scholarships. Depending on what he gets for departmental scholarships and need based aid, they could end up being cheaper.

@coolguy40 my daughter wanted to do undergraduate research. That was on her list of “must haves.” Although our state schools are excellent (my other kid attended) she was having a difficult time finding students who were involved in research. She called professors, contacted kids she knew who attended, etc. No luck. She was unable to find one student who was either engaged in research, or who knew somebody who was engaged in research. Furthermore, the professors who she emailed never got back to her. Does this mean that nobody did undergraduate research? Of course not…but it did appear that as though it was not particularly common.

I called my friend whose daughter attended that school and asked if she knew of anybody involved in research. Two weeks later the kid called me back and told me that she was unable to locate anybody…she had been asking for 2 weeks.

D attended an OOS school where most students are involved in research, where it’s easy to be involved if you want, and where professors email you back quickly if you express an interest.

So…I will have to respectfully disagree with your comment. I do agree that there are OOS schools out there with merit to give, often bringing the cost down significantly (depending on the school and the student). I also think that remaining instate can be a very good option.

My DD got accepted to an OOS public university flagship with a merit award that would have brought our net cost to $10,000 a year. That was WAYYYYY less than our instate public flagship university. Way less.

She didn’t end up going there, but yes…those merit awards are out there.

RE: subsidized and non-subsidized loans…one of my sons took out a $7500 Stafford, and had $4500 subsidized and $3000 unsubsidized as part of the FA package. This was in a year where both were in college and we qualified for more aid. The other son took out a $6500 Stafford the same year, and his school subsidized the entire amount. Apparently, there is some professional flexibility in decisions about granting subsidization as part of the FA award.

@CountingDown it’s very possible the second son with full subsidized loans had a more costly cost of attendance, and therefore more unfilled need. Or the school used those subsidized loans as part of his need based aid package.

$2000 of the max Stafford/Direct loan is always unsubsidized, even for $0 EFC students. So of the $5500/$6500/$7500, only $3500/$4500/$5500 can be subsidized.

@CountingDown how long ago were your kids in college?

Is it possible that the $6500 in “subsidized loans” included $3500 in Direct Loans and $3000 in Perkins Loans (which no longer exist)?