<p>i dont even have words to describe what im feeling in response to this, but i will tell you that none of it is good.</p>
<p>thanks a lot for all your input --- I'm only a HS senior, and this whole application process is sickening me (especially the money part)
btw, I didn't receive that UW chicago alum scholarship, and being "eligible" and an alternate for the scholarship still doesn't give me the money...I guess I'll opt for other schools that gave me money 'cus I've got no money except for loans from UW to go there</p>
<p>nvk, I am sorry that you didn't get the Chicago Club scholarship. </p>
<p>It sicken me to suggest giving Urbana‑Champaign a shot. Truth be told, you will still get a fine college education there. Plus, you also have a better shot at some in-state financial aids. And, after two years, you still can move north to Madison. :) </p>
<p>Good luck!</p>
<p>Consider this- many of those students getting the financial aid can't afford to go OOS, we're just lucky we have a great instate choice, paid for in part with our taxes... If it's that important to you to pay less to go to UW then get that job here and work for the year etc., then go to school (and pay your Wis taxes...).</p>
<p>i would go to urbana champaign if i didnt already attend WIU...im not about to switch to a 3rd school, even though they have one of the best kinesiology undergrad programs in hte country.</p>
<p>I just laughed when I saw the title of this thread.</p>
<p>As a parent of a HS student in WI, we have been told for YEARS(by GC primarily), #1-Even if your kid is a top 10% student and even though you LIVE in WI and pay HIGH taxes in WI, it will be VERY difficult for your child to get in at Madison.</p>
<h1>2-If they DO get in and you need money, forget it.</h1>
<p>Now we are being told, from the adminsitration in the UW system, that factors "other than academics and ECs" are being thrown into the mix of admissions criteria.</p>
<p>Sorry, but there is no sympathy vote coming from this mom who has watched too many high achieving native sons and daughters from WI not even get into Madison, let alone get money to attend. Nobody "hates" OOS, quite to the opposite; it seems clear that Madison prefers OOS to it's own Wisconsinites. Given equal qualifications, the OOS student will get in over the IS.</p>
<p>My two cents worth.</p>
<p>It's interesting to read about the Madison admissions process. It seems like believersmoms concerns' are pretty common among Wisconsinites. If that really is true, that's pretty awful. I know that here in Arizona we have a decently developed university system and pretty much any student in the top 10% of the ir class with 1200+ SATs can expect a full ride at any in-state school. While this is a nice option for some students (and a handful take advantage of it), our schools also lack the quality of a place like Madison. I think Madison is still 70% in-state students, and of that remaining 30%, I do believe that a substantial portion comes from Minnesota too (with whom the UW system has an agreement for reduced tuition and such). </p>
<p>If there is one thing I'm happy to see as a potential student, it's the fact that the people of Wisconsin are so concerned with what happens at their schools. Hate to mention my own state again, but here in AZ, people don't know the first thing about the Universities/what they're doing outside of the capital building and ASU/NAU/UofA. So I have a feeling that these concerns are a large part of why Wisconsin is so excellent. </p>
<p>Even though I'll be paying full out-of-state tuition I'm still honored to have been accepted to UW. It's one of the best schools in the country.</p>
<p>From what I've heard over the years, believersmoms's post definitely reflects the opinion of some Wisconsinites. I afraid things won't get better any time soon. The incoming freshmen class will likely stay at 5600 +/- 1% despite the addition of some 40% additional campus space in the next decade. </p>
<p>As it stands now, UW is increasingly out of reach for IS and OOS. I think the state needs to upgrade UWM to a top-tier status or risk losing many quality in-state students to other places.</p>
<p>The end of relatively open admissions to Madison is a good thing. It removes much of the dead wood that took up space and did not study. They are free to go to another UW campus and transfer in after two years. That is still pretty open with a 3.0 GPA. The academic rep has increased with the tougher admissions stds. Also the G was blowing some smoke. If you are in the top 10% you have a better than 50% chance with a 27 ACT. Try that at UCLA, Mich, Uva and some other top state U's. You won't have more than a prayer.
5600 is a good number for freshmen as it actually allows some personal attention and a dorm room for everyone.</p>
<p>"I truly feel for you. Unfortunately, there is no free college education (certainly not at the level of UW-Madison). If there is one, everyone will be jumping over it by now. The real world is simply not designed to take care of the average students. I hope that motivates you to work harder in Madison so you may get ahead later in life."</p>
<p>theres actually a college called olin college... basically of the same quality as MIT and CALTECH, but no tuition</p>
<p>and there is no way that a state school prefers in state students to out of state students. those who are in state might feel that way due to in state rejections and out of state acceptences, but its just not true. in state kids are given preference at state schools, always have, and always will. otherwise it wouldnt be a state school and it wouldnt get funded by people in state.</p>
<p>Actually due to financial concerns and recent poor funding from the state, Madison is trying to up the OOS enrollment and the numbers indicate it is a tad easier to get admitted from OOS. The problem is about 60% of instate admits choose to go while only about 25% off OOS go. That means lots more OOS admits to hit the quota of about 30% of enrollment and maximize tuition income to the UW. I think they are working on more OOS aid as they know the problem but if they end up discounting the tuition much it takes away some of the incentive to enroll OOS kids. It's a financial balancing act most schools face today. The state will not be funding more instate slots soon as some other campuses are below target enrollment and could use the kids. The big problem is making the other campuses attractive instead of just Madison.</p>
<p>
[quote]
theres actually a college called olin college... basically of the same quality as MIT and CALTECH, but no tuition
[/quote]
Throw in Copper Union (NY) too. Each year, these "free" institutions <em>only</em> take in about 200-300 highly selective students who have to pay their living expenses that closely match or even exceed the total cost of Wisconsin IS students. </p>
<p>I should also note an equal or larger number of students at many state universitues get effectively the same "free ride". So unless you are at the top of the pile, you have to pay your way. That's just the way it is. </p>
<p>For Wisconsin to fully meet the financial need of some 28000 undergraduates, its endowment size will need to expand 10-15 times or be at approximately 20 billions. Yea, some of us are working on it. ;)</p>
<p>
[quote]
The big problem is making the other campuses attractive instead of just Madison.
[/quote]
Right on the mark. Wisconsin has been accepting about 8% (presumably the top) and enrolling about 5% of Wisconsin HS seniors. So there are a lot of good instate students out there that can easily fill a top-tier research university along with UW-Madison.</p>
<p>Crouton-</p>
<p>"...and there is no way that a state school prefers in state students to out of state students.[sic-I believe the rest of your statement indicates that you meant "no way the school prefers OOS to in-state"]"</p>
<p>There are many things on a state level that defy logic and common sense in the state of Wisconsin, and I am not talking just about the higher education system. I say this as a person who loves this state and chose living here years ago over a much more lucrative career path that would have required that I move. But I am getting weary of all the non-sense that goes on at our state cap, as D gets ready to graduate HS, it may be time for a change.</p>
<p>I went to UW in the early 70's, was a NMS and would still get in today. However, many students of that era would not. I wish it had been as selective then, not for the courses (Honors were good then, too) but for the average dorm women. I suspect the admitted OOS students who choose elsewhere use UW as a safety but not for financial reasons, whereas the instate students end up at UW for budget as well as admission reasons. </p>
<p>By UWM are you referring to upgrading UW-Milwaukee? That would take away admission pressure from UW. Both campuses are different physically from the rest of the state UW campuses. Unfortunately none of the other UW campuses come close to Madison in both academic quality or ambience so you get the students wanting the academics and those who want the atmosphere, fortunately for the best students it has become more selective, unfortunately for many good students who would do well it has become out of reach.</p>
<p>Money is a real problem, just read sources about faculty salaries- could lose the good people that make it worth attending. Need to expand numbers of top quality faculty in order to expand the student population and keep the teaching good. The latest squawk is about the governor proposing increased property taxes to help fund education at various levels- tuition has already risen greatly in recent years... You get what you pay for, but people are not able to afford too many increases...</p>
<p>First, I need to apologize to OP for partially hijacking his thread.</p>
<p>
[quote]
By UWM are you referring to upgrading UW-Milwaukee?
[/quote]
Yes. At least UWM seems like the most logical choice given its location and current status. The state clearly has a good supply of top students but only one one great inlet. A second or even third, desirable choices will definitely keep many Wisconsinites happy and provide a healthy competition to the system. </p>
<p>Money is always the problem. Maintaining a world-class institution like UW-Madison is very expensive especially for its ambitious engineering and life science programs. But building first-class business or liberal arts programs are much cheaper and will attract top students. </p>
<p>Much of my opinion is based on what I've seen in Texas where UT-Austin and A&M absorb much of the top in-state students with their low cost, while Rice and SMU (in Dallas) cherry pick the rest with scholarship monies. So top in-state students rarely have to go to elsewhere for a good college education.</p>
<p>Texas has that one little thing--OIL$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$. Lots of it in the UT coffers. Wisconsin got a bunch of trees. Then they about gave them away instead of using the sales to fund an endowment way back when.
UW has ALWAYS had the salary gap problem and loses some good people every year. Yet they rank #1 in the Big 10 in Sloan winners for young faculty over the last three years. They tied harvard--again for winners of major faculty awards such as Guggenheims etc. They always find good young folks and give them better research funding than almost any school.</p>
<p>dallas, no problem --- everything you've posted here has been quite enlightening ...but I do have one more question to pose: does anybody think Wisconsin is one of those schools that an OOS student could negotiate with, in terms of $$? I realize that the school (like any other public school) is tight on money, and that financial negotiations (like "oh this school gave me a lot of money, but you guys are still my first choice") are tougher in public schools.</p>
<p>Also, it seems like UW is becoming one of those schools that's going to become underfunded. I refuse to go to U of I to escape the lack of money and spending on students. This is only a feeling (about UW scaling back on spending) I'm beginning to formulate due to this thread. Any opinions on that matter? It seems like everyone here is far more versed in the matters of finances here, 'cus all I have are kids at my school and a couple references that are currently fresh or soph at UW-Madison.</p>
<p>The tough days are in the past and compared to our #1 rival--UM, UW has not done badly. UM had more state $$$ than UW just about 4 years ago but now Um is around $325 M and UW is around $400M. The Governor has proposed a decent increase for the next two years and a better pay package so I am confident the problems are getting better. They have also held back the OOS tuition bumps so now UW is one of the lowest in the Big 10 with UM nearly $10K more. UW has ramped up fund raising doubling the endowment in four years to a total with the WARF endowment of nearly $4 Billion.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Does anybody think Wisconsin is one of those schools that an OOS student could negotiate with, in terms of $$?
[/quote]
Madison is one of those tougher places but no harm asking/trying. </p>
<p>
[quote]
UW is becoming one of those schools that's going to become underfunded ... about UW scaling back on spending ...
[/quote]
Believe it or not. The reverse is actually happening!! </p>
<p>It is a long and exciting story but I'll keep it brief. For most of the last two decades, the general funding from the state has been relatively flat so budgeting was very challenging (to say the least) at Wisconsin. But, in 1998 when Wisconsin made the embryonic stem cells breakthrough, its fortunate began to change. The university used its research prowess to compete aggressively for federal monies. At the same time, Wisconsin began building a world-class infrastructure for life science research and quite successfully in recruitment effort. In 2002, federal funding exceeded state funding for the first time in history and is now 50% more than state funding! The Wisconsin Campaign concluded last year also successfully brought in significantly more private monies. Much of construction/renovation going on campus these days and in the next couple years are mostly funded with private monies. The state also chips in a lot, especially in the Wisconsin Institutes of Discovery initiative. All these improvements are enabling the next wave of life science research as well as improving student access. The high hope is Wisconsin will hit one or more breakthrough results that will benefit the University and the state economy soon.</p>
<p>Now, some of you may be asking... what about the tuition and financial aids?!!! The short answer is the federal and private monies are highly restricted. They are great for your graduate education at Wisconsin but not at the undergraduate level which is largely funded by tuition and the state.</p>