<p>S chose the substance free dorm option and is returning to the same dorm this year. He did not feel socially isolated nor find it awkward because he doesn’t drink although he did say that after attending a few alcohol-laden parties, he opted to hang with friends who had a different idea of what constituted a good time. There were plenty of people who fell into the latter category. He said there are students that party hard but they are a minority. Tthe work load is too intense to party during the week and those few who do generally end up on academic probation.</p>
<p>so can anyone tell me why grinnell would be a better choice than other great LAC’s to which I’m applying such as bowdoin, davidson, and carleton?</p>
<p>It’s a matter of fit. Visit if you can and also do overnight visits if you’re so inclined. My son was admitted to 10 great LACs including Carleton, Vassar, Haverford, Reed, Oberlin, Mac and Pomona. He looked at them all very carefully, attended classes, spoke with students and in the end chose Grinnell, where he is very happy. He probably could have been happy at any of them, but I do brelieve he found his best fit. For him it was the best blend of intellectual, unpretentious and maybe what another parent here described as “come as you are”. There’s a great feeling of differences being not just accepted but celebrated.</p>
<p>Only you can decide which is a best fit for you. Grinnell would not be everyone’s first choice. I will say the resources at Grinnell are top notch and the services provided to students are great. Everyone who wants one can get an on-campus job and the school will often fund unpaid internships, for example.</p>
<p>It’s almost mystical how kids pick one LAC over another, but they seem to be able to tell which is their best fit.</p>
<p>I think “come as you are” is a very user friendly and spiritual philosophy.</p>
<p>I agree with bethievt. S visited Bowdoin, Haverford, Carleton, Pomona, and 6 others. He liked most of them-and probably would have been happy at any of them because the LAC environment is right for him-but Grinnell’s low-key, understatedness made him feel at home. Fit really comes down to very personal factors. </p>
<p>If you search “Grinnell vs. Carleton” or “Carleton vs. Pomona” on CC, I’m sure you’ll get tons of comparative information.</p>
<p>Okay, here is why Grinnell for anybody who is interested. I was reading about the Rosenfeld Lectures and Jane Mayer coming to Grinnell and thinking what I wouldn’t give to be in a small setting with Jane Mayer (arguably the most important journalist in the United States right now). And it made me think back to my own Grinnell experience three decades ago). It was one of the first Rosenfield lectures I think, and Georgi Arbatov (sp?) came to Grinnell to speak. Of course the name is lost to history right now, but at the time he was Gorbachev’s top advisor on Perestroika. He spoke in front of about fifty people, and everybody who had a question got to ask one (including me). But beyond that he had a small dinner with some students and then had a late evening session with any students who wanted to come, sitting in the president’s house with a fire going. There were about twevles students around. Arbatov was talking about the coming dangers his country would be facing. About half way through this amazing late night “bull” session two students came in with a pizza and six pack of beer. Of course everybody laughed, but then Arbotov’s face turned a little dark and he said something along the lines of “We are a vulnerable country right now, do not push us too hard to the West until we are ready.”</p>
<p>It was an amazing, amazing evening. But what is even more amazing about it is at the time I did not even realize what an extraordinary moment this was - these are the types of things that just happen at Grinnell. At some institutions you get to go to a place that is at the crossroads of history, but at Grinnell YOU get the opportunity to be at the crossroads of history. That is “Why Grinnell” I think as much as anything.</p>
<p>Wow, CenterUSdad, what a great story and testament.</p>
<p>My daughter graduated in May. She loved Grinnell and has no regrets about going there. Having said that, applicants should remember that while Grinnell may enjoy a fabulous reputation with graduate schools it is still pretty much unheard of in employment circles and that can make getting a job after graduation quite the challenge. None of my daughter’s close friends – and they were all high achievers – has yet to find a job.</p>
<p>Well, the terrible economy may have something to do with that too.</p>
<p>D is 1st year at Grinnell - I haven’t heard from her in 2 weeks - she is in love.</p>
<p>With the school, or…?</p>
<p>bethie – too cute!!! D’s college mates from Barnard are having difficulty finding jobs, and it is certainly well known in NY!!!</p>
<p>80% of recent grads are unemployed, so I think it would be a mistake to lay that on Grinnell’s doorstep.</p>
<p>A small explanation about Grinnell can be slipped into a vita: Education, Grinnell College, a top 15 liberal arts college, USNWR. That’s simple, decorous, and should remove doubts.</p>
<p>^
I wish it were that easy, Mythmom, but it isn’t. In my 30 years in corporate America, most people making hiring decisions did not graduate from “a top 15 liberal arts college, USNWR” and neither did their kids. When I look at the top 10 executives in my company, people paid seven figures a year, I see a couple of Harvards, but everyone else is big, land grant public university with well-known college football/basketball teams. And those folks tend to hire people like them, and so on, right down the line. A locally well-known, provincial, second/third-tier private university is on the same level as a nationally “presitigious” liberal arts college because most hiring manager don’t know the difference. I’ve witnessed this happen over and over again. So, to a corporation in New Jersey, a Drew University or Fairleigh Dickinson, or Seton Hall is considered on the same level (because they are known locally) as a Grinnell or Davidson or Colby or Middlebury. I’ve watched hiring managers in Minneapolis consider a St. Thomas University graduate to be superior or equal to a Carleton College grad, because of unfamiliarity with rural LACs in the same state! An East Coast LAC vs. St. Thomas University? Forget it. Clearly, a 3.5 gpa from St. Thomas is superior to a 3.5 gpa from Williams College, a school way out in “Massachusetts somewhere” they’ve never heard of.</p>
<p>Unfortunately, most people are very provincial if not clueless.</p>
<p>People who do know the difference are on Wall Street. But most graduates of LACs, especially LACs not located in the northeast, are not all that interested in working on Wall Street.</p>
<p>So heres’the deal. I graduated from Williams in the 80’s and thought that having my daughter follown my footsteps would be so great. After a while I realized that she should find her own special place - that truly fit her needs, her temperament and her goals in life (whatever they might be…). After lots of searching she chose Grinnell. </p>
<p>I have been on this website for over a year and have always been struck with how positive everyone seems to be. I read with interest the posts from Bethievt and Ms mom who always seemed to be trying to be helpful in dealing with a very stressful time in a person’s life, often giving constructive criticism and advice from their own experiences. And I try to piece together information about campus life - dorms, food, roommates, classes that could be of help to my daughter in her transition.</p>
<p>I have been in corporate America for over 25 years, from Miami to NY to Chicago and I have always dealt with people who knew about Williams and who recognized the value of a liberal arts degree. While the economy has indeed soured over the past few years it seems me that the time to value a liberal arts education is now more important than ever. </p>
<p>So if people in this world dont know about Williams, or Grinnell or don’t understand how a liberal arts degree can change their lives its their loss in the end. </p>
<p>Thanks for letting me vent.</p>
<p>Plainsman makes some valid points about LACs not being as well known. Given the number of people graduating from LACs vs. the number graduating from public univerisities, it would be bizarre if most of the senior level executives came from LACs.</p>
<p>I think there are several observations I’d like to add (as someone with 30+ years of corporate experience):</p>
<p>1) After your first job, no one really cares where you went to school as an undergraduate. They may care about where you got your graduate degree, but they really care about what skills and experiences you bring to your work and the quality of the references you have.</p>
<p>2) The importance of a strong alumni network should not be overlooked. This is one the the assets that you are paying for and its important to encourage your kids to take advantage of that, and participate themselves. I got my first job offers out of grad school by calling alums from my graduate program for informational interviews. In addition, while I don’t have time to talk to every person who wants to ‘learn more about my industry,’ I always make time for alums as a matter of ‘giving back’ to those alums who helped me out early in my career. When we were looking at schools, we were very impressed by the number of Grinnell alums who made time to talk to us and offered to help S with his future plans.</p>
<p>3) Finally, although I am not an advocate for pre-professional focus in education for everyone (for some, its the right thing-not so for others), I am a believer in making sure you leave school with a toolkit that you can rely on. That means writing well, understanding basic statistical analysis, making sure you can present verbally a concise and articulate argument. LACs are great places to develop the toolkit and most employers will value that skill set once you get your foot in the door.</p>
<p>Since we’re talking about employers’ perspectives, I’ll add my two cents.</p>
<p>I’ve been in the legal profession for nearly 25 years. I personally hire young attorneys. I definitely take into account an applicant’s undergrad college and transcript. I don’t care so much about what he/she studied, but I do want people with a demonstrated ability to write and think - two skills that often take years to develop and hone and which are not automatically bestowed during three years of law school. In short, I like what I’ve seen from graduates of top LACs in terms of their ability to read, write, research, and analyze complex problems. Of course I don’t hire only LAC grads, but I do pick up their files with the comfort of knowing that their analytic and writing abilities were put to the test from the first semester to the last.</p>
<p>Where my S ends up studying is entirely his choice, but I am very happy that he’s looking at LACs and I’m not at all concerned that this choice will hurt him in the job market. </p>
<p>And yes, I know the difference between a 3.5 at Williams and a 3.5 at St. Thomas.</p>
<p>Since I’m not a lawyer, I don’t know what’s typical in the industry, but do most law firms look at a young candidate’s undergraduate (as opposed to the law school) transcript? It seems odd to look at someone’s grades from freshman year when, 6 years later they are applying for a job. I’d notice if someone graduated with honors or not, but that’s about all.</p>
<p>The one large corporate law firm I’ve dealt with extensively is very aware of where a candidate attended law school and how they performed, but this is the first time I’ve heard of asking for an undergraduate transcript. Is this new? Or was I just uninformed?</p>
<p>I can only speak about what I’ve seen, without making any claim as to what is “typical in the industry.” The legal profession is pretty broad, and whereas the corporate department of one firm might prefer one undergrad background, an IP department might be looking for someone with an undergrad engineering degree.</p>
<p>First, it is not a question of looking at the undergrad transcript “as opposed to” the law school transcript. Obviously, both the applicant’s law school and law school transcript are very important. </p>
<p>Second, it is not a question of asking for the undergrad transcripts - most, but not all, applicants for entry level positions submit undergrad transcripts (along with a cover letter, resume, and law school transcripts) without being asked. Applicants who already are experienced attorneys tend not to do this, however, and transcripts of any kind take on less importance for lateral hires.</p>
<p>Finally, no one I know tends to nit pick undergraduate grades, although it almost goes without saying that if someone was accepted to a top law school that his/her undergrad grades were pretty good. I look at the undergrad transcript to see if there is a demonstrated ability in writing and analysis, in addition to getting a general sense of the candidate’s interests.</p>
<p>Hope that helps!</p>
<p>Regarding Grinnell’s area in relation to job accessability. Yes, it is true Grinnell is quite rural and not near any top firms, nonetheless top cities! But there are some gems in there, General Mills, Hostess Snacks Cakes, Wonder Bread, and Quaker Oats (manufacturers). It has a decent finance-economy with over 6000 firms! And as with most areas, bio engineering/bio technology markets are expanding.</p>
<p>Furthermore, Grinnell is in a unique situation. It’s the only major liberal arts college in the state, and it’s probably the highest regarded there too. Unlike other colleges, you don’t have competition from various other nearby colleges, which gives you less overall competition. The claremont schools are all near each other, as well as some UCs, haverford is near Upenn, Byrn Mawr, and Swarthmore! Barnard is right near Columbia, etc.</p>
<p>And good heavens let’s not forget Warren Buffet and his giant reputation.</p>