<p>The</a> Importance of “Undergraduate Education” at Surviving Harvard</p>
<p>Should be mandatory reading. I don't necessarily agree with the author's description of our undergraduate education (I kind of like the core, for example, and ec 10/expos are just about the only classes I know of where you don't learn from a professor more than a few times a semester). The idea that Harvard is Harvard because of the PEOPLE is key though.</p>
<p>I was going to create a new thread to ask exactly the same question when yours popped up. </p>
<p>What makes Harvard special? Why did you choose it?</p>
<p>Let's leave aside all talk about prestige, since I'm sure most would agree that it shouldn't be the main reason for choosing a college. Please, no academic or major-related issues either, since one could probably get an education of similar (or better quality) at Yale, Princeton, Stanford, Penn, Columbia, Chicago or Brown. And if you're studying something like Folklore and Mythology which only Harvard offers, that dosen't really help the rest of us who aren't.</p>
<p>So why Harvard? As the writer of the above article suggests, I'm sure the people are top notch. But don't adcoms like to claim that they could have filled their classes three times over with no loss in quality? Most of these Harvard-rejects end up at schools like Yale/Princeton/Stanford, where the concentration of brilliance is probably on par with that of Harvard. In fact, there are quite a few Y/P/S-rejects who end up at Harvard.</p>
<p>I'm not convinced that the people are what gives Harvard the edge over the rest of the top 5 schools. Besides, if an applicant were to write that he/she wanted to attend Harvard because the people there are the elite, the creme de la creme etc., that might not go over too well with the adcoms, since some of them come from far less pedigreed backgrounds than the students they're letting in/rejecting will have.</p>
<p>Please enlighten me. Why Harvard????</p>
<p>As a Harvard parent, soon to be a double-Harvard parent, I've seen numerous opinions posted on CC and in other print sources about a supposed lack of university commitment to undergraduates. I've seen nothing of the sort in the two years that my older D has been there, and I have to wonder if the strength of graduate and professional schools automatically suggests to some that as a consequence, undergrads must be neglected.</p>
<p>Harvard faculty and staff have connected my older D with incredible internship opportunities in South America (got her into e-mail conversations with the Vice President of a South American country to talk about one), helped fund them, paid her stipends for her out-of-the-classroom performing arts activities, and are sending her to China in August to teach for two weeks, all expenses other than airfare paid. Her faculty know her by name (even those who are celebrities in their fields), her residential college has a live-in faculty House Master and live-in tutorial staff, and the school basically looks for ways to make students' plans do-able when they request funding. She has made great use of the illustrious visitors who the graduate schools and Institutes bring to campus (especially when the Institute of Politics brought in Stephen Colbert :-). Yes, the housing varies widely in quality, but the school just announced a $1 billion, 15-year complete renovation of all housing - that's hardly apathy toward their undergrads.</p>
<p>Her fellow students are unbelievable company. There's the freshman friend who had to beg out of a weekend event because he had to go to D.C. where his play was premiering at the Kennedy Center. There's another who at 16 solved a graph theory conjecture that mathematicians had never before been able to prove. Her extracurricular involvements have had her performing in Manhattan and throughout New England, coordinating student tutors for refugee youth in the Boston area, and convening a Model Congress legislature of over 1,000 high school students from across the country. And she has yet to complete her sophomore year.</p>
<p>Perhaps all this can happen at Y,P, M and S as well. It was certainly never in my realm of possibility when I attended a Top 30 university that is supposedly renowned for the quality of its undergraduate education.</p>
<p>. . . but I do wish the Grounds staff would stop cordoning off Harvard Yard with PVC pipe and clothesline. If they can't find the funds to go to Ace Hardware and buy a few hundred yards of decorative chain, I'd be willing to foot the bill.</p>
<p>Alrighty then. I chose Harvard because:</p>
<p>1) The resources available to you are unbeatable. You get money when you ask for it, even for the most esoteric of projects, and they aren't overly stingy about it as long as you go through the application processes. I asked for $4500 to do a study in Ghana, I got closer to $9000 and had to give $2000 back because even after extending the trip by a few weeks there was no way I could justify keeping the rest.</p>
<p>2) The research opportunities here are INSANE. Close work with faculty is the norm, not the exception. I'm doing my thesis with Richard Wrangham (probably the world's leading expert in primatology, mentored by Jane Goodall) a friend is working closely with Norman Letvin (leader in work for HIV research) and another friend is doing one on one work with Nancy Cott (one of the most famous proponents of second wave feminism in the country - ask your mother). Doesn't matter the discipline, faculty are happy to have you work with them, and you actually get to do things (Harvard is vehemently opposed to undergrads being used as 'another set of hands' and the faculty member can actually get in trouble if it is found to be the case).</p>
<p>3a) The extracurriculars. Harvard has more D1 varsity sports than any other school in the country, and hundreds (maybe over a thousand) of other clubs to speak of. And the quality is top-notch. If you want to play a sport here, you can do it as a D1 NCAA athlete. If you want to write for a paper, you get to write for the Crimson, arguably the most prestigious daily in the country (and the oldest continuously published college newspaper in the country). If you want to go into comedy, comp the Lampoon, which has launched innumerable Hollywood careers (the writing staffs of The Daily Show, The Colbert Report, The Simpsons, and many more are chock full of ex-Poonsters). Sing for one of the a cappella groups and tour the world. The list goes on.</p>
<p>3b) The extracurriculars are a huge part of everyone's life. I am someone who likes to do a lot of things outside of class, and Harvard is incredibly conducive of that. Although it is true that MIT kids do more work (and could be construed as receiving a more 'rigorous' education) everyone here is incredibly invested in our extracurriculars and the academic culture here fosters that. The stereotype of the Harvard student who stays in his or her room and studies all day and night could not be farther from the truth, in fact if anything it's the opposite that is true.</p>
<p>4) When it comes down to it, yes, the people. Breaking it down into stereotypes (since, let's face it, that's what most High Schoolers are going on anyways) Princeton is preppy, Yale is artsy, Harvard is arrogant, Stanford is laid back, etc. While I vehemently disagree that Harvard is arrogant, one thing I can say is that everyone here is world-class in something (and if their proud of themselves for that one thing that's justifiable too, although for the most part people here seem overly modest). There isn't a single student here who doesn't bring a really new angle to the table, and just being around people like that 24/7 really stretches your mind. Even the Z-listers bring something 'world-class,' even if it's coming from a background of world-class wealth. </p>
<p>5) Boston. You have the greatest College city in the world three stops on the T away from you at all times. Despite New Haven and Princeton's best intentions, they can not now and never will be able to hold a candle to the culture and activity of Boston. This last reason was actually the deal breaker for me between Harvard and Princeton (I rejected Yale for a whole host of other reasons).</p>
<p>gadad, the Yard is usually cordoned off with rope and painted green fence posts (looks better). The PVC piping is brought out only as a last resort when drunken students have broken all the fence posts in the yard. There's a 'game' of getting a running start, jumping up with both feet and trying to land on the fence post - you have to kind of tilt your body sideways - so that your weight bends it down and it cracks in half because it's pretty firmly planted in the ground so it won't budge from that end. It's mostly hockey kids, but I do feel bad for the poor grounds crew.</p>
<p>Well, I'd probably either use posts made of something other than wood or catch a vandal and let the hockey coach suspend him from the team as an example, but you're right . . . I'll let the grounds crew off the hot seat.</p>
<p>Thanks for your thoughtful replies, gadad and h-bomber.</p>
<p>A couple of your points are similar:</p>
<ol>
<li><p>Resources/funding for interships/activities: Isn't this really a function of how much money the college has? I know Harvard has the most money, but other colleges with similar endowments should be able to provide this too. Besides, if one was enough of a go-getter (which most H students are), one could probably do the same elsewhere. So it's not really a Harvard-specific reason.</p></li>
<li><p>Close work with faculty: same as 1, you could do this somewhere else too. It would depend on how hard you chase the opportunities.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>3a. Variety of extracurriculars: It's funny but I've always heard that Harvard suits the kind of people that know what they want beforehand and pursue it singlemindedly. So the variety of ECs wouldn't help me because I would just delve straight into my passion. If it happens to be something esoteric interest/club that other colleges might not have, one could just start it there, no?</p>
<p>3b. This is a fantastic reason. That's exactly what I mean - something unique to Harvard - the culture - not how much money or how many organizations. Anything else like this?</p>
<ol>
<li><p>People: I don't get what you mean by all the stereotyping. Obviously that's inaccurate and you'll find all sorts of people everywhere. So it's being world-class in a certain thing and bringing new angles to the table? But couldn't one find that at another top college too? This one isn't quite unique to Harvard.</p></li>
<li><p>Boston: You could go to BU/BC/whatever else college near Boston. Or Columbia, where you'd have NYC.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>Keep 'em coming.</p>
<p>
[quote]
but other colleges with similar endowments
[/quote]
</p>
<p>lol which ones?</p>
<p>Well, both P and Y have higher endowments per capita than H.</p>
<p>As a Y student I can agree that this is one of the perks of going to a top institution - it's not a stretch to say that your edumucation is worth a good amount more than what you pay for (if you pay for it in the first place...), and you can get a chunk of it back through grants to develop your student organizations, research, summer plans, post-graduation plans, etc.</p>
<p>For me Boston really is the deciding factor. You're not going to get anywhere near the results for 1-4 at BC/BU/Tufts, and Columbia is pretty drastically different than Harvard for a number of reasons (most of which I think are negative). Too cut off from community (for obvious liability reasons), a gen-ed system that is absurdly strict, and an academic culture where people like Madonna Constantine to get out of pretty serious plagiarism charges (and the fact that she hasn't really done anything of note) by accusing the administration of racism.</p>
<p>Each school has its own unique personality and attracts an unique group of students. It is not so much those whom Harvard admit, but those who choose to matriculate at Harvard that make the difference. How you value those people is a very personal thing though. If you do not identify with them, then H may not be the right place for you.</p>
<p>Please keep them coming (Harvard's specific reasons)</p>
<p>h-bomber, I think that's a really good point. It's hard to pinpoint a set of attributes that give Harvard a unique character (except your point 3b about the extracurricular culture). They just do everything better than everyone else and it's this unbeatable combination that continues to draw the best and brightest.</p>
<p>mom2319, I agree that the characteristics of the student body may come into play when fit is considered, whether they are "your people", so to speak. But that's something that a prospective student simply cannot determine before being accepted and matriculating.</p>
<p>Let's change it up a bit...what makes you LOVE Harvard? What are those intangibles?</p>
<p>IMO, "love" is one of the stupidest words to use for inanimate objects. Anyway...</p>
<p>Harvard has the two best clubs in the entire history of the world.</p>
<p>I know this sounds stupid but what are the two best clubs? Isn't this imply exclusivity by the way?</p>
<p>He thought I was serious...lol</p>
<p>LOL! Anyway piccolojunior, this forum is created for a reason. So, it not wise for you to play around with facts like that. It will not bring you good in the long run. Trust me. There are other places for you to play around but just not this place. e.g. Even if you wanna kill someone, that doesn't mean you can or you should. You just have to change your mind and/or do other activities (legal, please. We live in a world with rules, remember?) that can make you not kill other people. Although I suggest to change your mind and if that's not enough, do activities. If that's still not good enough, please find a therapist.</p>
<p>Although I agree with some of your general sentiments Visionary, I would maybe suggest that you compare post/thread counts with someone else before lecturing them on the purpose and etiquette of a given forum...</p>
<p>Ehem...I respect that he is a senior member. Don't get me wrong. But in this instance, are you saying that you can play with facts? No disrespect again here.</p>