<p>You rather miss the point. What is telling is that the OP and others of the same ilk seem compelled to justify their choice by comparing it to Harvard - and tearing down Harvard in the process.</p>
<p>You will <em>never</em> see posters on the Harvard page justifying their choice by spewing negative stuff about "the competition." Harvard students generally find it sufficient to focus on the aspects of their own school that attract them.</p>
<p>If a student turns down Harvard for Yale, it's not superfluous to explain why they found Yale preferable to Harvard. Obviously the OP did, that is why he made the choice he did, and others in the same situation would surely find such an opinion helpful, at least. In that case it isn't simply Harvard-bashing for the sake of bashing Harvard; when making a choice between two options, it's completely necessary to compare the two.</p>
<p>Somehow, those who pick Harvard don't seem to find it necessary to bash other schools in order to justify their choice - <em>that</em> I think is a telling difference - and may relate to the overwhelming edge Harvard enjoys with common admits: the great majority who choose Harvard don't feel any "rival-bashing" list of cliches as justification are required.</p>
<hr>
<p>Some quotes from the OP:</p>
<p>"So, Harvard has the bigger name. Sort of. Well, at least among people who don’t matter."</p>
<hr>
<p>"I didn’t find Harvard as bad as Princeton with the whole pretentious atmosphere thing, but at least kids I know at Princeton accept and embrace their conceit, and live in a sort of bliss of arrogance. Harvard students just seems to be miserable and lonely..."</p>
<hr>
<p>"I’ve reveived tons of questions about the quality of departments here vs. those at Harvard, and basically the point is that on an undergraduate level, departments at all schools of this caliber are equal."</p>
<hr>
<p>"I found Harvard admissions weekend boring, and that I was surrounded by a bunch of smart individuals, not a community.
- Because of the types of people who choose to attend Harvard, competition between students is unbearable – I wouldn’t be able to handle it."</p>
<hr>
<p>"Speaking of misery and loneliness, my residential college dean used to be an advisor in one of the houses at Harvard. She has a lot to say about the differences between the two schools, but in an effort not to sounds redundant, she usually tells an illustrative anecdote; she was in charge of a block of 20 students, and only 6 students were not seeing mental health professionals."</p>
<hr>
<p>" ...Harvard Yard (which I found ugly, and not nearly as cohesive as Old Campus) ..."</p>
<p>... it goes on in this fashion at great length, stringing the usual Harvard-bashing cliches togther one after the other.</p>
<p>Sure, his words about Harvard were a bit harsh (hey, that's how he felt, so be it), but it's not, like I said, quite "bashing". It serves a very good purpose. I know people who agonized over the decision between Harvard and Yale, Harvard and Stanford, etc., and ended up taking Harvard--would it be wrong to say why they felt the other school was less suitable for them? I think if you just said why you liked Harvard, it would be incomplete--one can like many schools, but in the end comparison is completely necessary for a decision...no? :)</p>
<p>Don't be silly. Its was just a serial recitation of the usual cliches. Again, rather typical and tiresome. If this isn't "bashing" then I don't know what the word means. "Serves a good purpose" you say?? How so? Making Yalies feel better about their school by enumerating negative cliches about the school that cleans its clock with common admits?</p>
<p>Ah, you're quick! Was just typing up a little follow-up post :) How is the OP's point so easily dismissible as "typical and tiresome" just for saying that he found the Yard unattractive and uncohesive, or that the admissions weekend was boring, or that he didn't get a sense of community as much at Harvard? Is it so inconceivable that he actually felt this way?</p>
<p>Remember, this person had a reason for choosing Yale over Harvard, I wouldn't doubt that these criticisms are sincere.</p>
<p>Ah, so he's "sincere" in his rationalization and that renders his disgraceful post acceptable?</p>
<p>If I were a Yale advocate, I'd find his post embarrassing in the extreme. Again, you won't find the counterpart to such a post on the Harvard page, I don't believe, even though the overwhelming majority of those who have the choice pick Harvard over Yale. They simply don't feel the need to rationalize their choice by dumping on the "competition."</p>
<p>It reminds me of those telling Yale Herald and Daily News editorials chiding Yalies for their "other-directedness" in constantly measuring their school's merits, virtues, etc. relative to Harvard's - whether in athletics, academics or the quality of the toilet paper..</p>
<p>See, for example: <a href="http://www.yaleherald.com/archive/xxxii/10.26.01/opinion/p8a.html%5B/url%5D">http://www.yaleherald.com/archive/xxxii/10.26.01/opinion/p8a.html</a></p>
<p>See, I find a big distinction between those Daily News editorials and a post like the OP's. Apparently you don't, and I'm not quite sure I understand why, but we can agree to disagree.</p>
<p>Hate to say it, but I have to agree with Byerly. The original post just makes it seem that Yalies have to tear down Harvard to justify their choice. Why can't one just say (as I do) that they chose not to apply to Harvard or to go to Yale instead of Harvard because Yale was better for them. Claiming that 70% of people at Harvard have mental issues (as one of the quotes mentioned by Byerly seems to imply) is completely ludicrous, and makes the OP's comments seem inane.
As a Yalie, I cringed when I saw that this thread had been revived. It only serves to embarrass Yale.</p>
<p>I agree with your final comment. The OP's post was an embarrassment to Yale - a fine school - and deserves to disappear. </p>
<p>I thought it lapse of good judgement by the moderators to award it "featured" status.</p>
<p>I second (third?) the sentiment. It's absurd that the mods made this a featured discussion and kept this thread alive. It's an embarrassment to Yalies.</p>
<p>Hmm, given the sentiment here I feel extremely embarassed for still not understanding, so perhaps someone could explain to me... why is it so wrong to explain why one chose to go to Yale and not Harvard, when many, many students in the future will be making the same choice and might find the observations useful? Obviously it isn't right to just generally justify Yale's good qualities through comparison to Harvard, but if you're choosing between them, and are explaining your decision, then wouldn't it be insufficient to just say why you liked your choice, without explaining what made you turn down the other schools you were considering?</p>
<p>I love Yale. There are many great reasons for going there. The OP provided exactly none of them. Instead, he/she recited a bunch of ignorant dreck about Harvard. That's why it's embarrassing. The OP doesn't deserve Yale.</p>
<p>Mmm, I see, thanks :)</p>
<p>What I don't like about the post is not the general idea that Harvard is criticized; as you say, you cannot justify choosing Yale over Harvard without saying that Yale is better than Harvard in certain areas. Rather, it is the fact that so much of what the OP states seems to be at best completely misguided and at worst, slanderous. For instance
1. "I didnt want to be with those whom I not-so-affectionately term prestige-whores, or with people whose parents/family pressured them into going to Harvard."
What gives the OP the right to call people who go to Harvard "prestige-whores" in comparison with those that attend Yale? Moreover, to initially declare Harvard and Yale equal in prestige, and then equate choosing Harvard with prestige-whoredom is completely inconsistent.
2. "I didnt find Harvard as bad as Princeton with the whole pretentious atmosphere thing, but at least kids I know at Princeton accept and embrace their conceit, and live in a sort of bliss of arrogance. Harvard students just seems to be miserable and lonely because the environment is so competitive, and because self-image is so intimately tied with being the best, i.e. getting better grades than the guy next to you. Its weird because many of these same kids wouldnt be that way at other schools, but its just hard to come in as a freshman and single-handedly change the established attitude of the place."
Unfounded generalizations based on what, exactly? I very much doubt that Yale, Harvard, and Princeton differ very much at all in "pretentiousness." And how much can the OP really claim to know about Harvard and Princeton anyway? If this is just based on people she knows, well, I know plenty of nice down-to-Earth people going to Princeton and Harvard.
3. "Speaking of misery and loneliness, my residential college dean used to be an advisor in one of the houses at Harvard. She has a lot to say about the differences between the two schools, but in an effort not to sounds redundant, she usually tells an illustrative anecdote; she was in charge of a block of 20 students, and only 6 students were not seeing mental health professionals."
This is where the post moves from stupid generalizations based on limited knowledge to borderline slander. I will admit to not having access the mental health records of students at Harvard, but the implication that 70% need to see mental health professionals is clearly absurd.
4. "Harvard hired a fun czar to look out for the social lives of its students. He called a friend of mine on the Yale College Council to find out where the parties were on Harvard-Yale weekend, so he could tell Harvard students where the happening parties were. Ummm
ok. Whatever."
Probably the most overused stereotype about Harvard. I think pretty much any university has someone whose job is to improve undergraduate life. The fact that Harvard calls their's a "fun czar" is irrelevant.</p>
<p>That said, some sections of the post are actually useful and relevant, and show how one can compare two universities without bashing one of them. The "Scheduling" section points out an objective, substantive, difference between Harvard and Yale: the scheduling of finals. The "academic requirements" section talks about the mindset of Yalies (which the OP probably knows a lot about) rather than the mindset of Harvard students (which the OP knows close to nothing about). "Advising and Undergraduate Focus" also concentrates on Yale's strengths, while pointing out a couple of factual differences between the two schools without using those facts to make generalizations (I was surprised, given the rest of the post, that it does not say that Harvard doesn't care about undergrads, probably the only common anti-Harvard claim that doesn't appear).
The "Housing" section mixes good and bad. It provides accurate info about the basic process of assigning residential colleges at the two schools, but at the same time states that Harvard's system leads to "drama" and "doesn't lend itself to forming tight communities" when the OP has at most anecdotal knowledge about what happens at Harvard.</p>
<p>The absurd claims of the post, however, cause the good parts to lose credibility. Overall, then, the post embarrasses Yale much more than it helps it.</p>
<p>OK, I think we all got the point. Many people visited, thought Yale students were much happier, and chose Yale. Some of the posters here gave a few more specific reasons beyond that, which you can read above and are no use repeating. Yale is now the most selective school in the country. End of story.</p>
<p>If you're still in doubt that there are any significant differences, visit the two schools for yourself - preferably from a Thursday to a Sunday, or a Saturday to a Monday, so you can sample both academics as well as weekend social life. Among people who visit both to that extent, the vast majority choose Yale and having spent extensive time at both schools myself as an impartial observer, it is easy to see why.</p>
<p>That said, Harvard is also a fantastic school. Its undergraduates do very well. I'm not sure why the Harvard posters, particularly those who work for Harvard's admissions office, are so insecure.</p>
<p>Do you have proof to support that claim that students who visit both yale and harvard choose yale, or are you just bringing down yale, yet again, you secret anti-yale troll, with your absurd unfounded unrealistic and completely pathetic claims?</p>
<p>To begin with, the majority of students who get into Yale choose to go there. Yale and Harvard are at the top of the Revealed Preference ranking, and Yale has the lowest acceptance rate. These facts are irrefutable. Furthermore, according to admissions directors I have spoken with, as well as anecdotal evidence, the yield rate is much higher - close to 95% - among admits who make a significant overnight visit to the campus. I think you're missing my larger point, which was that admits should spare no expense to visit and be informed, as this is a major decision for them to make. Not all top schools are the same, even if they might sort of sound the same from the brochure.</p>
<p>so the short version is that no, you can't actually prove that statement.</p>
<p>I'm in high school right now, but that recent post just embarrassed me, especially the opening "don't argue" crap she posted. </p>
<p>this yale poster just left me with a very bad taste in my mouth. </p>
<p>Competing over better parties? Hell I'll throw my own, or go to UF or FSU on break for those. </p>
<p>The whole post was just dissing Harvard and saying "it's all true, don't argue."
If that's the state of Yale students no wonder all our politicians are ****ed up.</p>