<p>You realise this thread is almost three years old…</p>
<p>Gen. Chem is conceptual and very easy for some who have no problem with math (Gen. Chem was my D’s easiest class in college and she did not have AP in HS). According to my D. who had to work extremely hard for her “A” in both Lecture class and Lab (two different classes with two different profs), Orgo was pure memorization and that is the reason why it is very time consuming.</p>
<p>…have to add that “visualization and rotation” was not any problem for D., who had taken group and private art lessons from age 5 all thru HS. She actually mentioned that.</p>
<p>Its that time again…do any of you veterans recommend any good sites that review the reactions? There are too many floating in my mind right now and I need a good summary. -_-</p>
<p>…we just finished NMR. Someone please shoot me. NMR is very different from anything else we’ve done thus far in orgo.</p>
<p>Our campus undertook a detailed analysis of academic performance in introductory Bio. Chem Physics and Ochem (gateway science courses) at a number of institutions. The focus was on Bio. majors/premeds. In general a large portion of the students struggle to ‘learn’ the material presented in all these gateway science courses. The attrition rate is relatively high. As a science faculty I can tell you that part of the problem is that many of our students feel they need to take science courses because they are premed as opposed to having an interest in the subject. They attempt to learn the subjects using superficial approaches (memorize) with little or no effort to learn key concepts. Some refer to it as the AP approach to learning science. Based on the analysis of the data our campus is considering no longer offering credit for AP science courses.</p>
<p>Well, I have to tell that D. loves every single Bio class she has had. She had very many as she is Zoology major. Every one of them is very interesting for her and she can talk about them forever, if we could only understand. Every single one of them starting with the very first one, has been the most difficult class of her prospective semester. She is junior, will be in senior standing next semester and so far managed to have GPA = 4.0. It does not mean that it has been easy, it has been very very challenging, and Orgo belongs being very hard. On the other hand, classes like math and physics that she has no interest at all and calls boring and taking them only because of Med. School requirement, are much easier for her, math has been always her easiest class while she has never been interested in it at all. Her approach is to work much harder in classes that are harder for her, there is no magic about it.</p>
<p>appdad:</p>
<p>Can I ask why the intro college science classes are soooooo work intensive, relative to other college courses, particularly humanities classes. Forget the extra 3 hour lab itself, but that one lab can create practically as much outside effort as a 3 unit hume course. (Prelab, quizzes, write-up, etc…) Lab classes should earn an extra unit, but they usually don’t. As a result, few in their right mind would take the course just because they have “an interest in the subject” – just too much work, and unless you want to “outwork” the premeds, zero chance at an A.</p>
<p>“zero chance at an A” - wrong attitude!</p>
<p>“Some refer to it as the AP approach to learning science. Based on the analysis of the data our campus is considering no longer offering credit for AP science courses.”</p>
<p>The same discussion took place among science faculty at my daughter’s college. Faculty strongly endorsed the proposal to eliminate AP credit. Ultimately, however, the administration ruled in favor of maintaining credit for AP science courses in which a 4 or 5 was earned on the exam. </p>
<p>My daughter, who struggled a bit with Gen Chem, has found Organic Chem much easier in comparison. She was told by a senior Bio major that this was often the case with Bio majors, while students with strong math skills frequently found Gen Chem a breeze and Organic Chem a killer.</p>
<p>MiamiDap:</p>
<p>you missed the first part of the statement: unless you want to “outwork” the premeds…" I was assuming that most kids have somewhat equal abilities coming in, so those that score the As are the ones that work the hardest/smartest…</p>
<p>And, of course, I forgot to add that many in Frosh Chem have already taken AP Chem and did well, but are retaking for the “easy” A (or so they think). My point to appDad is that it is illogical (and a grade killer) for anyone to take the course just bcos they have an “interest in the subject”.</p>
<p>As an aside, it’s also worth noting that practically every college assumes that kids already have at least one year of HS chem. Thus, they don’t offer Intro to Chem, which IS a course kids might take if they had “an interest in the subject.”</p>
<p>"My daughter, who struggled a bit with Gen Chem, has found Organic Chem much easier in comparison. She was told by a senior Bio major that this was often the case with Bio majors, while students with strong math skills frequently found Gen Chem a breeze and Organic Chem a killer. " - this is interesting. My D’s Orgo was at the same difficulty level as her Bio classes, very, very difficult. Gen. Chem was her easiest class in college (she did not need to take Calc, which probably would have been easier). D did not have AP Chem at HS, just Honors. She ended up with almost all Gen. Chem tests/exams being over 100% (with extra credit), A+ in class, which resulted in her being hand picked by Gen Chem prof as Supplemental Instructor, the best job on campus. Kids love her sessions. She has some regulars and prof commented that some kids improve their grades in class. Orgo on the other hands was a test in survivor’s skills. She got an A with inhumane efforts that were way beyond average person’s ability to sustain.</p>
<p>Miami:</p>
<p>Was your D’s HS honors class was really strong? For example, our HS used to offer both Honors Chem and AP but there was little difference in the curriculum between the two, so they dropped Honors.</p>
<p>D went to very small private HS known for its superior prep for college. We had kids driving as long as an hour one way from another state on a daily basis. School has always placed 100% of graduates into 4 year colleges. Maybe that made a diff. However, all college Bio classes and Orgo have been very challenging. D had both Honors and AP Bio in HS (AP - “5” on exam) and her Honors Bio used the same textbook as first college Bio. Despite that first college Bio has been horrific weed out class with stories circulating in Honors dorms about HS valedictorians switching to a different major after it.</p>