Why is UCLA seen as more prestigious than USC?

College Search & Selection
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<p>Back in the mid 1970’s my brother-in-law went to USC because his grades weren’t good enough to get into a UC. He was an indifferent student, and dropped out after a year. My in-laws are not wealthy people, so it wasn’t just a question of throwing money at a kid in the hopes that an education would stick. At any rate, that was the reputation of the place at that time. Times, needless to say, have changed. Pickwick got it exactly right. </p>

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<p>Pizzagirl, doesn’t/didn’t Northwestern have this kind of football rivalry, the stuff of legend, where both sides hate the other with a passion? If not, you don’t know what you’re missing. :smiley: :wink: Because, for pity’s sake, it’s a freakin’ college rivalry! Army-Navy! Michigan-Michigan State! Cal-Stanford! Just recently, the NYT Style section described a wedding where the bride, who came from five generations of Yale grads, talked about how initially difficult it was to date her husband, who went to (shudder) Harvard. :)</p>

<p>If you don’t want to play along, that’s fine. But no fair stomping on those of us who still get a big charge out of razzing our friends who went to the hated rival.</p>

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<p>SlitheyTove—correct…but for one thing. It’s the Michigan-Ohio State rivalry that defines rivalry. I had two uncles and one grandfather(class of '06 wooooot) who played football for OSU. When I graduated HS in Mich and scored a scholarship to U of M, I thought that my dad would commit ritual suicide. Fortunately I went to UCLA. And like the commercial says “we NEVER graduate”. [UCLA/USC</a> ESPN commercial - YouTube](<a href=“UCLA/USC ESPN commercial - YouTube”>UCLA/USC ESPN commercial - YouTube).</p>

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<p>^I would argue that Alabama-Auburn, Texas-Oklahoma and Duke-UNC are stronger rivalries than Michigan-OSU.</p>

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<p>Not sure if anyone has mentioned this yet, but USC’s freshman class are 20% legacy:</p>

<p><a href=“http://www.usc.edu/admission/undergraduate/private/1112/USCFreshmanProfile2011.pdf[/url]”>http://www.usc.edu/admission/undergraduate/private/1112/USCFreshmanProfile2011.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Not that legacy and meritocracy are mutually exclusive, but the term sometimes evokes negative emotions- especially if grandpa didn’t go to USC. However UCLA is currently experiencing the same budget apocalypse as the rest of the system. The majority of faculty have had to negotiate “over scale” pay to remain competitive with other colleges:</p>

<p><a href=“http://www.uclafaculty.org/FASite/Newsletters_files/SalaryScaleFall06.pdf[/url]”>http://www.uclafaculty.org/FASite/Newsletters_files/SalaryScaleFall06.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Contrast this with a private school drawing students from the same demographic, but with freedom to choose the truly exceptional students, and endowments in the millions announced almost monthly. If you were a sharp ambitious academic which campus would you choose?</p>

<p>Reputations of people and colleges often lag far behind the reality of the present situation.</p>

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<p>musicamusica, oops about the correct Michigan hated rival. goldenboy, the rivalries you note might seem stronger to you, but I suggest that you not mention this theory over dinner to an Ohio State or Michigan alum. Just sayin’. :)</p>

<p>A good rivalry doesn’t even need football. Caltech-MIT!</p>

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<p>“I would argue that Alabama-Auburn, Texas-Oklahoma and Duke-UNC are stronger rivalries than Michigan-OSU.”</p>

<p>Of course you would. You never have anything nice to say about Michigan.</p>

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<p>Perhaps goldenboy went to Ohio State?</p>

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<p>“If you were a sharp ambitious academic which campus would you choose?”</p>

<p>Most sharp ambitious students look at their particular focus and make a judgement based on current data. For example my D , who just finished her MM, (European languages were essential to her focus) though she had been accepted with a generous scholarship,decided to take USC out of the running since they had recently cut out their German language department completely. That’s right USC periodically makes cuts as well. I was glad…that means we are still on speaking terms. ;)</p>

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I think there’s a difference between a rivalry and outright hatred, at least in some cases. In terms of Duke and UNC, there’s definitely hostility during basketball season, and there isn’t much love lost during Duke-UNC games. During the rest of the year, though, it’s more like a sibling rivalry – they bicker and fight, but they’re still pretty close. In fact, moving around the country, I’ve bonded with UNC alums over basketball and our rivalry.</p>

<p>This is very different from, say, Maryland’s absolute hatred toward Duke, which has always made me deeply uncomfortable.</p>

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<p>No it isn’t. UCLA still made the AAUP top 25 for 2010-11. And, <em>gasp</em> they paid more on average than USC did.</p>

<p>[The</a> Chronicle: AAUP Faculty Salary Survey](<a href=“http://chronicle.com/stats/aaup/index.php?action=result&year=2011&withRanks=1&sort=professor&limit=25&offset=0]The”>http://chronicle.com/stats/aaup/index.php?action=result&year=2011&withRanks=1&sort=professor&limit=25&offset=0)</p>

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<p>You can make that argument, but yours would be the minority view. Here’s how espn.com rates the greatest sports rivalries of all time, across all sports and at all levels (in the U.S., of course):</p>

<ol>
<li>Michigan v. Ohio State (football)</li>
<li>Ali v. Frazier</li>
<li>North Carolina v. Duke (basketball)</li>
<li>Wilt Chamberlain v. Bill Russell</li>
<li>Toronto Maple Leafs v. Montreal Canadiens (pro hockey)</li>
<li>Arnold Palmer v. Jack Nicklaus</li>
<li>Red Sox v. Yankees</li>
<li>Auburn v. Alabama (football)</li>
<li>Redskins v. Cowboys</li>
<li>Giants v. Dodgers</li>
</ol>

<p>I’ll concede that North Carolina v. Duke is big in basketball, but because basketball commands a far smaller audience than football, Michigan-Ohio State is #1.</p>

<p>Bleacherreport.com lists top college sports rivalries (football unless noted): 1) Michigan-Ohio State, 2) Alabama-Auburn, 3) USC-UCLA, 4) Texas-Oklahoma, 5) Duke-North Carolina (basketball), 6) UConn-Tennesse (women’s basketball), 7) Florida State-Miami, 8) Colorado-Nebraska, 9) Florida-Florida State. 10) Missouri-Kansas.</p>

<p>Richard Davies, history professor at the University of Nevada, wrote a book about it, “Rivals! The Ten Greatest American Sports Rivalries of the 20th Century”. His list:

  1. Ohio State vs Michigan – College Football
  2. Harvard vs Yale – College Football
  3. Duke vs North Carolina – College Basketball
  4. Red Sox vs Yankees – MLB
  5. Bears vs Packers – NFL
  6. Dodgers vs Giants – NFL
  7. Celtics vs Lakers – NBA
  8. Chris Evert vs Martina Navratilova – Tennis
  9. Joe Frazier vs Muhammad Ali – Boxing
  10. Jack Nicklaus and Arnold Palmer – Golf</p>

<p>Athlonsports.com lists top college football rivalries: 1) Michigan-Ohio State, 2) Alabama-Auburn, 3) Army-Navy, 4) Texas-Oklahoma, 5) USC-Notre Dame, 6) Georgia-Florida, 7) Miami-Florida State, 8) Harvard-Yale, 9) Florida-Florida State, 10) Cal-Stanford.</p>

<p>FoxSports lists its top 10 college football rivalries: 1) Michigan-Ohio State, 2) Miami-Florida State, 3) Alabama-Auburn, 4) Army-Navy, 5) Oklahoma-Texas, 6) Notre Dame-USC, 7) Florida-Georgia, 8) UCLA-USC, 9) Cal-Stanford, 10) Florida-Florida State.</p>

<p>Chris Dufresne of the LA Times rates top college football rivalries: 1) Michigan-Ohio State, 2) Alabama-Auburn, 3) USC-Notre Dame, 4) Oklahoma-Texas, 5) Army-Navy.</p>

<p>Michigan and Ohio State have much larger fan bases than Alabama and Auburn. Of the 25 most-watched bowl games in the period from 2003-2010. Michigan or Ohio State played in 10 of them. These schools are well-known ratings-boosters, which is why the Sugar Bowl was so eager to snap up Michigan this year ahead of several higher-ranked teams. This year’s Michigan-Ohio State game drew a 5.3 television rating, even though neither team was in the top 10 for the first time in recent memory; in contrast, the Alabama-Auburn “Iron Bowl” drew a 4.3 rating.</p>

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Nope, I’m a Blue Devil.:D</p>

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So, saying OSU-Michigan is not one of the top 3 rivalries in college sports is an insult to Michigan? You’re way too bent up about how people perceive your alma mater me thinks.</p>

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That’s an interesting survey beyphy. Do you know how some schools like Berkeley, Michigan, UVA and Wisconsin have strong faculties despite paying their professors less than private schools?</p>

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<p>Oh, goodness, no. Lighthearted rivalry with U of Illinois and with U of Michigan – but nothing that anyone takes seriously.</p>

<p>What was the thread some time ago about how Duke was playing a rival (don’t recall if it was UNC or a different rival) and people were gleefully crowing about how they ensured that a man in a wheelchair who “belonged” to the other side couldn’t see? It wasn’t very becoming, that’s for sure.</p>

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<p>Historically, Michigan-OSU has been the best rivalry in college sports but its tough to argue that Duke-Carolina hasn’t been the highlight college rivalry for at least the past 25 years. The two programs combined have won 8 National Titles and been to 19 Final Fours in the past quarter century. There has only been 6 seasons (1987, 1996, 2002, 2003, 2006 and 2007) where at least one of the two teams hasn’t made a Final Four during this time frame. That is complete domination!</p>

<p>Michigan-OSU only have 2 National Championships in college football between the two teams over the past 25 years as well as 2 addition Championship appearances for OSU and 11 Rose Bowls between them. Additionally, there exist ancillary relationships for the two teams such as Michigan-Michigan State, Michigan-Notre Dame and Michigan State-Ohio State that dilute the rivalry between Michigan and OSU. You can’t have that many disparate rivalries when you’re claiming that one of them is the greatest of all time. There can only be one “main show”.</p>

<p>I don’t buy that viewership is indicative of the strength of a rivalry. It’s just a function of it encompassing two large states so that will obviously draw a lot of attention. The Duke-UNC matchup cuts across bloodlines in the state as the schools are located only 8 miles apart and literally pits brother against sister and husband against wife. There’s also that additional dynamic of a private school being matched up against a public school that brings a whole socioeconomic element into the rivalry and ignites it some more.</p>

<p>Viewership and fan support is the only measure in which Michigan-OSU competes with the Duke-UNC rivalry. In terms of actual athletic success, proximity of the opponent and the ties that bind, Duke and UNC is something special.</p>

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<p>Sorry, but bb will always take a back seat to football in this country. It’s just the way it is.</p>

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<p>Not really rjk, here are 10 states off the top of my head where college basketball is clearly bigger than college football…</p>

<ol>
<li>North Carolina (Duke/UNC/Wake)</li>
<li>Kentucky (Kentucky/Louisville)</li>
<li>New York (St. Johns/Syracuse)</li>
<li>Tennessee (Tennessee/Vanderbilt)</li>
<li>Washington (Gonzaga/Washington)</li>
<li>Maryland (UMD)</li>
<li>Arizona (Zona)</li>
<li>Kansas (Kansas)</li>
<li>Connecticut (UConn)</li>
<li>Nevada (UNLV)</li>
</ol>

<p>Indiana, California, Texas and Florida are both Football and Basketball crazy at the collegiate level with powerhouses like Indiana, UCLA, Florida, Texas and good schools like Baylor and Cal.</p>

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<p>"Not really rjk, here are 10 states off the top of my head where college basketball is clearly bigger than college football…</p>

<ol>
<li>North Carolina (Duke/UNC/Wake)</li>
<li>Kentucky (Kentucky/Louisville)</li>
<li>New York (St. Johns/Syracuse)</li>
<li>Tennessee (Tennessee/Vanderbilt)</li>
<li>Washington (Gonzaga/Washington)</li>
<li>Maryland (UMD)</li>
<li>Arizona (Zona)</li>
<li>Kansas (Kansas)</li>
<li>Connecticut (UConn)</li>
<li>Nevada (UNLV)"</li>
</ol>

<p>It’s easy to see why. Not one of them is currently any good in football. :-)</p>

<p>I can understand why as a Duke alum you would have no idea how college football trumps college basketball.</p>

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<p>It’s tough to compare the popularity of the two sports. Each football game matters more individually in the season but The Big Dance puts the BCS Bowl Games to shame in terms of national viewership, importance and popularity.</p>

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<p>^^^^yawn^^^^</p>

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<p>Prestige is a big thing, but all the universities that you listed are prestigious, so it’s not that.</p>

<p>It would depend on many things, location for one. Sure, Darthmouth might pay more than UCLA, but UCLA’s probably at least as prestigious at Darthmouth, and LA is undoubtedly way better than Hanover, NH. </p>

<p>You should also take into account that some places in the U.S. are significantly cheaper to live in than others. LA is one of the most expensive cities int he world. And this, in part, accounts for why the faculty are paid such a high amount of money.</p>