Whenever I ask about LACs, individuals tend to respond with info about Amherst, Swarthmore, Middlebury, or Haverford. However, Williams is consistently ranked higher than these schools. Of course, there is a general consensus on these forums that all the top 10 LACs are almost the same in terms of academic level. However, from what I’ve heard (I have friends who went to each of the colleges mentioned above), Williams seems to have a harsher grading curve and have more academic opportunities (ex. mandatory Winter Break classes, tutorials, and the Williams-Exeter program). Why is a school that seems to be at least equal in terms of academic opportunity and rigor significantly less well known? Is it because 50 years ago, Williams was perhaps below the top 50 (not sure if true, merely speculating)? Is it because it’s in the middle of nowhere? Is it because Williams’ athletics aren’t as popular or strong as the other schools? (I always heard that Williams was a semi-jocky school, though.)
Nope
Probably not
Definitely nope
Williams is very well known by the people who matter.
I think Williams is very well known and is often recognized just as well as Amherst, Middlebury, etc. And while Williams may be in the middle of nowhere in Massachusetts, so is Amherst. In fact, I think Middlebury is deserted even more so in Vermont.
I was pretty surprised to read this post, actually. In my experience, while Amherst seems to have, for whatever reason, slightly better name recognition (possibly because of the large state school in the same town?), Williams is as well known as any comparable LAC and significantly more well-known than some schools you listed, especially Haverford. Just as many consider the top universities in America to be HPYSM, so too are there the “elite of the elite” in LAC’s, namely WASP (Williams Amherst Swarthmore Pomona, which is a hilariously appropriate acronym. The other top LAC’s outside of these four are excellent schools, but the general consensus is that these four constitute the best of the best.
This post was almost entirely opinion and hearsay, so I apologize if I got anything wrong or offended in any way.
@jersey454 please change your acronym from the cute WASP to the more appropriate, SWAMP to include Middlebury in that group. OP, Williams is easily as well known as any of the other LACs. The problem is that while the top LACs offer an education as strong as HYPSM they don’t have any where near the name recognition. The average Joe has no knowledge of LACs. Oh well, their loss.
@urbanslaughter, Middlebury? No offense to the Midd kids, but I’d put Bowdoin above it in terms of quality of education. It’s an excellent school, of course, but it seems to me to be just a half a notch below the ones I mentioned. Many people who don’t get into any of the aforementioned four go to MIddlebury because its so similar and just a hair easier to get into. Just my perception.
Right or wrong, the WASP schools are generally considered the top tier of LACs, with the Bowdoin/Midd/CMC/Reed crew just below.
I’d agree that Williams, Amherst, Swarthmore and Pomona are all equally regarded by folks in the know as the top tier of liberal arts colleges, with Bowdoin, Haverford, Wellesley, Middlebury, Wesleyan and Carleton grouped together in the next tier just BARELY behind. The top four attract the strongest applicant pools, place students in the top grad schools and jobs, have the most financial resources, and also have the most diverse student bodies among the top LACs. Students at WSAP regularly turn down Ivies or each other to attend; I think that is less the case as the next tier of LACs, even if really the education is equivalent.
Of those four, I’d say Pomona (despite the recent Forbes ranking, which didn’t really seem to do all that much for Williams’ general name recognition, either, two times Williams has been ranked first) is probably the most underappreciated, oddly enough for some of the reasons you attributed to Williams: newer to the elite rankings, lower-key athletics and traditions, outside of the East Coast. Most people you meet will have heard of one of these schools, but when they actually know about them (as anyone in fields like law, medicine, academia, high-level gov’t, consulting and banking almost surely will), they are always enormously impressed. And it’s very rare that someone would know one of Amherst, Williams and Swarthmore, but not the other two, unless they were a local resident of the town the school is located in. I mean, Williams had been ranked first in the most prominent college rankings (USNews) for over a decade now, so it’s hard to imagine that anyone who pays any attention at ALL to LACs would not have heard of it.
To the extent Williams MIGHT be less recognized by some people, it’s only because the name itself sounds a bit generic and is easily confused with the other “William” schools out there, in particular William and Mary. Amherst and Swarthmore kind of SOUND snootier / more exclusive. But honestly, while this is all fun to speculate about, it doesn’t really matter … every grad school and prestigious fellowship you will apply to coming out of Williams (or A/S/P) values it as highly as any school in the country, and for the vast majority of jobs you would WANT to apply to, the same thing applies.
I think we are really splitting hairs here, but I find that grouping a little surprising. Using USNWR rankings, until this year Middlebury was ranked ahead of Bowdoin, Wellesley, and Pomona. Wellesley was ranked ahead of Pomona and Bowdoin, and Middlebury for a long time. When Newsweek published their issue announcing “the New Ivies” they included Williams, Amherst, Swat, Wellesley, and Middlebury amongst the Ivies declaring that these were the existing top schools in the country. To that list they added Bowdoin and Duke (among others) which they argued were now good enough to be considered with the Ivies. I’d probably consider PMWB to be comparable schools and for whatever reason, they’re the next tier of LACs all their own. I don’t believe for a second that the quality of education at these four schools is any lower than the education at Williams, Amherst, Swarthmore. Realistically it’s like comparing Harvard, Yale, and Princeton with Stanford, MIT, Columbia, and Chicago. Does anyone really think the latter four schools are a step down from the first three? If so, then rankings have jumped the shark. The problem with rankings is that they force you to differentiate things that are equal. People want to say that Williams is better than Amherst when they’re both great schools where personal fit is a greater differentiator than quality of education. The same could be said for any of these 14 schools.
@urbanslaughter - You misquoted Newsweek. the actual paragraph you referred to is as follows:
Carry on.
I’d say the Newsweek paragraph has been misinterpreted as well, at least as it was literally written. The line in question uses the word “like.” The meaning of this language is that the listed schools are being cited as examples, but not necessarily as exclusive exemplars. If anything particularly specific about the status of the mentioned liberal arts schools was intended, the writer communicated it pretty nebulously.
@circuitrider thank you for providing the actual text and correcting my memory.
@merc81 I agree with your point. I’m not sure, however, that I was espousing a different interpretation from yours.
Williams is very reputable and well known…
The “Super Six” by standing reputation within professional school, graduate school, and Wall Street circles are - Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Stanford, Williams and (Amherst or Dartmouth, depending on who you’re asking). Your neighbor may not be quite as impressed, but then again your neighbor wont be determining your future.
The “‘Super Six?’” Only on College Confidential . . .