<p>Has anyone's child elected to go to an honors college instead of a prestigious college? Is this just a cost thing or is there another benefit that I don't see?</p>
<p>First…what is your definition of prestigious? </p>
<p>I’ve seen students pick honors colleges over higher ranked schools often because of money. </p>
<p>Either the family can’t pay for the pricey school or the student is going to use “family money” for med/law/grad school.</p>
<p>For most majors, there really isn’t a “pay off” for attending a pricey school. For most engineering majors, attending their state flagship (with or without honors program) is going to result in the same pay as if they graduated from - say - RPI or even Cornell. The same goes for those majoring in Education, Nursing, etc. </p>
<p>And, for those who are pre-med, going to a good school that isn’t top ranked can often mean graduating with a higher GPA than if they’d gone to a more cut-throat U that is loaded with super stats pre-med students. Having a really high GPA can help with med school admittance. Plus, by not needing to borrow much/anything for undergrad, really is a good plan for those headed med school. </p>
<p>That said, not all honors colleges are equal. Some are more developed than others.</p>
<p>Some offer LAC-like classes that only have 20 or less students in each class. Some offer honors housing and/or priority registration.</p>
<p>It is just the cost thing. There are no other benefits but there disadvantages to almost all honors colleges.</p>
<p>@collegehelp—what do you consider the disadvantages that almost all honors colleges have. I am curious because my son is interested in the Burnett Honors college at UCF and I have read a lot of good things about it and really no negative. Also, I always read positive posts regarding honors programs so I would love to hear the downside to it. thanks in advance for any info/advice you have.</p>
<p>The large majority of students in honors colleges share much of the same experiences and environment as the non-honors. Many of the supposed advantages are just window dressing. A marketing tactic to attract better students. Such as early registration.</p>
<p>You still get a degree from the same university as everyone else, the culture and atmosphere is mostly created by the overall student body. If you are smart enough to get into the honors college, you could certainly get into a much better college and have all the advantages of a smarter student body and better faculty and better reputation.</p>
<p>The honors colleges at Berkeley and Michigan Virginia are exceptions. They are probably a good choice regardless.</p>
<p>But, if you have to go to an in-state public to save money, go to the honors college.</p>
<p>The large majority of students in honors colleges share much of the same experiences and environment as the non-honors.</p>
<p>I could easily argue that that exists also at elites. Elites do accept some underprivileged kids, but the majority of their enrollees come from middle to upper class families and/or schools…because those are the kids with the stats and the wherewithall to apply. </p>
<p>Just look at the ECs of the typical elite school applicant…their EC’s are often identical…accomplished musicians, science clubs, science awards, Intel, 10+ APs, IB, etc.</p>
<p>gluckie, I cannot agree with collegehelp, because the devil is in the details.</p>
<p>First, you need to be specific. Which prestigious college/University is the other option? If you are comparing Honors-UCF with regular Florida State or University of Florida, that is one discussion. If you are comparing to Wesleyan or Cornell, that is another discussion.</p>
<p>In general, the Honors college (they’re all different, so you have to get specifics) is most effective when there is:</p>
<p>1) Honors Housing, including a resident Honors Professor
2) Early Class enrollment priviledge
3) Small, discussion sized classes with detailed feedback on the ideas/structure of written papers
4) Proactive Mentoring by Honors Professors
5) Honors designation on the Diploma and Transcript
6) the student in question does better in a smaller, collaborative, affirmative environment in comparison to a larger, competitive one
7) Admission into the Honors college includes financial incentives (scholarship, merit awards) that makes it possible for the student to not work during the school year, or take on large loans, in comparison to the prestigious school.</p>
<p>What is the “prestigious college” you’re referencing?</p>
<p>Honors colleges can be a great choice for those attending a larger school. Honors colleges offer valuable perks and let you meet some of the top students at your college. However they are often oversold with glossy pamphlets implying a small LAC has been set up inside the larger university giving ann elite private education at the public school price. On this forum you’ll read posters who also say/imply that.</p>
<p>Depending on the program offerings may range from separate honors classes to taking just one honors seminar per semester. And some of the “honors” offerings may just be a special discussion section of the regular class (at many U’s you meet 2-3x a week in a large class with the prof, then everyone meets weekly in a smaller group with a TA). You really need to dig in to find what a particular school offers. </p>
<p>Keep in mind honors programs typically offer the small classes and hand-picked profs only the 1st two years of college. They can do this because doesn’t take that many classes to come up with a set that will meet the lower-division requirements for most majors. It is rare to find more than a token amount of upper-division classes since the honors program simply doesn’t have enough faculty members to create entire major(s). So the last two years most/all classes are taken with the rest of the students in the regular U’s classes. The teaching of the profs will be geared towards the normal U level, the discussions and student involvement in class will be dominated by the regular students, and so on. Class sizes may balloon, too, if you’re in a popular major. </p>
<p>Peer effects are big, too; when almost everyone around you at school is a strong student you have lots of good student to emulate in class or outside it such as doing research or internships. If the top kids are a few hundred strong dispersed among tens of thousands at the U then strong examples may be harder to see. When it comes to finding a job, employers are less likely to send recruiters to a campus with a limited number of honors seniors when they can get a campus-full at more highly regarded schools.</p>
<p>Honors colleges do offer some valuable perks, in addition to the classes. Typical ones include registering for classes before everyone else so you get the classes you want (a perk worth its weight in gold!), special counselors, guaranteed housing, special library privileges. They will mark your diploma recognition. But I would be dubious about attending a college for its honors program in place of a more highly regarded U if finances are not an issue.</p>
<p>
Going to have to disagree with you on this one; many students at large public facing budget crises struggle to enroll in the classes they need to graduate on time. If honors did nothing else but let you register early it would still be worthwhile, IMHO.
</p>
<p>Some people get rejected from their dream school, so go to Safety School - Honors College.</p>
<p>If your kid wants the social life, sporting events, large variety of choices of college major, extensive research opportunities, and gigantic alumni network of a big public university, those would be other reasons to choose the public U honors college over a famous name institution.</p>
<p>Of the “top” institutions, only Cornell has a College of Agriculture, School of Hotel Administration, or College of Human Ecology. An “ivy-qualified” student with interests in any of those three general areas would almost certainly be better served by an honors program at a public U with an Ag-Tech emphasis than at HYPSM or any of the Ivy-peers.</p>
<p>Thank you all for your opinions and info.</p>
<p>We are in the preliminary stages of searching and was curious to see what the advantages would be. For example: Would you hire someone for genetics research that took their undergrad courses at Duke rather than Calhoun College (Clemson’s honors college)? Or does it even matter? Should you even worry about that at this stage, or wait until you get into your Masters or Doctorate program? Does a “name” really make a difference when they start applying for jobs? I realize those are two very different institutions (Duke v. Clemson), but those are the two in our general area that we’ve looked at (one in person and one online only). We’ve looked at other colleges and are continuing to look at more. Again, we are still in the early stages of looking and I wanted to get everyone’s opinions. It’s hard to schedule all these visits and was more or less trying to narrow down our list.</p>
<p>Thanks again everyone!</p>
<p>* Would you hire someone for genetics research that took their undergrad courses at Duke rather than Calhoun College (Clemson’s honors college)? Or does it even matter?*</p>
<p>It really is more up to the student…not his undergrad. Clemson’s honors college is very good. Other flagships also have very good honors colleges with excellent research opps.</p>
<p>As for your direct question…Genetics research is really something that a graduate degree is needed. So, someone with just a bachelors isn’t probably going to look that appealing next to someone with a masters anyway. So, your child will be fine to do his undergrad at Clemson or some other flagship, and do his masters elsewhere.</p>
<p>Don’t fear that a student with a BS at a flagship won’t get accepted to top grad schools. That’s not true, either.</p>
<p>
A bachelors degree in the sciences isn’t going to qualify you for more than entry-level positions in companies involved in genetic or other research, and there will be little opportunity for advancement. The union card for a researcher is the PhD.</p>
<p>This, however, is an example of a situation where attending an honors college can be well worthwhile, especially if finances are a factor. Honors students in a good program will be encouraged to engage in research, will have a faculty mentor who can help steer them in the right direction, and will be eligible to take graduate courses while still an undergrad. These things make for a student that is an attractive candidate to PhD programs.</p>
<p>Is the overall experience going to be just like going to an elite college that is strong in the sciences? No, but in the areas that matter with respect to grad school (research experience, strong personalized letters of rec, working the network of the faculty to find a good PhD program) it serves quite well.</p>
<p>Gluckie…</p>
<p>What is your situation? Are you concerned that a school like Duke will require a “family contribution” that will be too expensive? If so, then an honors college is a great choice.</p>
<p>Are you instate for Clemson? </p>
<p>As mentioned above, a BS in some kind of genetics isn’t the entry into research jobs. Your child is going to need to go on to grad school. If your child excels at Clemson (or some other honors program), then he certainly can get accepted to a good PhD program. I have a son who is graduating from a flagship/honors program, and so far, no rejections from any PhD programs.</p>
<p>There are honors colleges and honors colleges. Some of the best absolutely hold their own with the academic opportunities at tippy-top schools. UT Austin’s Plan II and UCSB’s College of Creative Studies are two that come to mind. </p>
<p>I don’t believe that Berkeley has an honors college. Individual departments offer honors curriculum, but there is no overarching honors program.</p>
<p>I agree regarding UCSB College of Creative Studies. </p>
<p>It appears to be the most effective mechanism within the UC system to collaborate with full professors in designing and pursuing research interests beginning freshman year – certainly more effective than UCLA Honors or Berkeley general student population.</p>
<p>^^
If the OP isn’t a Calif resident, then paying for a UC isn’t a better choice over a school like Duke or similar…because the cost would be about the same.</p>
<p>I wouldn’t choose an honors college if it meant paying OOS rates which can be as high (or nearly) as a private. If the OOS school will give merit to reduce/cover the OOS rates, then… Clemson often does give scholarships to cover OOS rates for those who have the stats for Calhoun Honors.</p>
<p>I wasn’t suggesting these schools for the OP’s child. Just pointing out that the caliber of honors colleges can vary widely, which is why it’s a good idea to check out affordable offerings.</p>
<p>My D chose to go to Indiana U and is in their Hutton Honors college.
Money was a factor, but not the ONLY factor.</p>
<p>She was accepted at several top LACs/Ntls Us, but the finances didn’t work for us; we had good deal of savings but not in the 200k range, so it would have meant BIG debt. I wanted her to finish UG with no debt, or max of 5-7k total.</p>
<p>She was also accepted at several very good (but not top-top) LACs and Universities that offered great merit. Those would have been doable, and were among her choices.</p>
<p>She loves the honors program at her school–she’s taken 3 honors courses so far (in 2 now, she is a Freshman still). At her school to get honors designation on diploma, you are required to have taken at least 8 honors courses during your time at IU. They are excellent, rigorous, writing-intensive, discussion-intensive classes. She’s actually found her non-honors courses to be very good, too, partly b/c at a public U many of her APs, etc allowed her to skip entry-level courses, so mostly she’s in 300-level courses. She’s in honors housing, and has met lots of bright, curious, fun people. And she loves the energy of a big campus–lots of arts/cultural events, etc.</p>
<p>She registers early, and is eligible to apply for honors grants to help pay for study abroad or other academic pursuits. She also got a big honors scholarship, which made it very affordable (we are OOS). She’s already established good relationships with professors. I was worried she’d be lost in the shuffle at a big school but that hasn’t happened.</p>
<p>She does actively seek out/take advantage of the honors activities, etc, and it’s been great for her. She loves it. For a less proactive or shy type, it might not be the best. </p>
<p>Overall, I don’t see a downside to a good public honors program, especially if your child is interested in grad school, and you want to minimize UG debt.</p>
<p>Others will have different opinions, and it might not work for all kids, but it’s working for mine. If money had not been a factor…she might have gone for ‘big name U’, but she has zero regrets.</p>