<p>I think that the most important thing about a rec is the content rather than the length. Adcoms are used to most of the standard stuff anyway.</p>
<p>For the AP teachers, there is some limitations on the # of kids who seek recs because they have only taught a set # of kids (often about 80-100/year or so). I think most of the teachers at my kids' HS do regard writing recs as part of the joy & obligation of teaching these very academic kids.</p>
<p>I agree it's much fairer & better for the student & teacher if the teacher is candid with the student about whether s/he feels s/he can write a positive rec instead of writing a lukewarm one when the kid is expecting a glowing one.</p>
<p>I have read some recs that folks have sent in on behalf of Eagle Boy Scout candidates and have been mildly disappointed that the writers did not write stronger letters (I know the boys & admire them). I think to some degree, it's due to the limitations of the writer & we didn't think any less of the boys because of the writing abilities/inabilities of their references.</p>
<p>I asked a teacher to write me a letter of rec. She agreed. My problem is that she asked me to provide a list of EC's that she "can incorporate" into the letter. What good is a science teacher saying I'm good at english EC's? Or vice versa? Either way I gave her the list hoping she would stick to things she knew about me, instead of giving me a cut and paste letter of rec. I suppose I can't tell her to not give it to me now that I've asked. Oh well, its just my entire college life on the line...</p>
<p>OP, the terminology is confusing because when you ask for a letter of recommendation it's easy to assume "recommendation" means something positive. In fact, what you're asking a teacher to do is write a letter of evaluation. Even the Common Application uses the word "recommendation" interchangeably, so at one point they say "Please also give that teacher stamped envelopes addressed to each institution that requires a Teacher Evaluation." although they talk about "recommendation" in much of the rest of the form.</p>
<p>It is very important to ask a prospective evaluator whether they can write a positive letter for you. This is always appropriate, phrased politely of course. EVERY student should do this when asking for letters of rec. For example, "Am I a student you would write a strong letter of reccomendation for, or do you suggest I ask someone else?" Don't argue or question why if the answer is ask someone else, simply to thank the teacher for their honest answer.</p>
<p>If you could ask every teacher you ever had for their opinion, for most students the result would be mixed bag. And sometimes a teacher you assume would like a kid (due to a high grade, for example) sees things differently. There is no shame or dishonor in deliberately selecting those who hold a favorable opinion to write a rec.</p>
<p>While it can be uncomfortable for a student to ask a direct question like this to a teacher, it HAS to be done. I know someone who was on the alumin scholarship committee for a well-known U and they regularly received letters of "rec" for the full-tuition scholarship that raked the kid over the coals. In the book "The Gatekeepers" in which a reporter for the NY Times followed the admissions committee at Wesleyan (a top LAC) for a year is a real-world example of a bad rec.
[quote]
There were times, I must admit,that I thought Tiffany might have taken a stronger interest in mastering the material in our course. When I saw that Tiffany was a National Merit Semi-Finalist I was a bit surprised. While clearly bright and competent, I had seen in Tiffany neither an exceptional skill for testing nor a particular affinity for the subject.
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This could have been avoided if the teacher had been asked if they would write a strong rec. The student did not get in.</p>
<p>Actually, I think you're overestimating the importance of the letter of rec. From what I've read, it is mainly perhaps a "tip" factor--an exceptional one might tip in your favor & a truly awful one may tip toward rejection. The most important part of the app is your transcript, scores & essays, NOT the rec. Just give it your best shot & have safeties you love (& your family can afford) & things will work just fine.</p>
<p>I agree that it is key to ask the teacher if s/he could write a STRONG letter & be prepared to ask another teacher if there is ANY hesitation.</p>
<p>I would agree that it's unethical... It's called a letter of recommendation for a reason. If the teacher does not feel they can in good conscience recommend you, they should decline to write about you at all.</p>
<p>Sometimes teachers basically have no choice. For instance, colleges may ask for a recc from a teacher who taught one a specific subject junor or senior year. It may be that only one teacher did that, so that's the only teacher that one can ask to write the recc, and the teacher can't really refuse because s/he is your only option.</p>
<p>That would have been the case for my S, since he had only one teacher for both jr & sr year of science (fortunately they got along very well); many of his peers were in the same situation. He also had one teacher for both his jr & sr year of math (different teacher). It can be tough sometimes, but everyone has to do as well as they can with the situation they end up in.</p>
<p>
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I think it is unethical for a teacher to agree to write a letter of recommendation for a student and then put negative things in it.
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</p>
<p>Actually, I think it's unethical for recommendation letters to only have positive things, despite whether or not the student is actually good. Doesn't that defeat the whole purpose?</p>
<p>If a teacher (or college professor in ref to grad school of job recommendations) has a difficult, acidic, crabby, or whiny personality - beware of asking them for a recommendation. They may agree but these types sometimes enjoy stabbing students in the back with their blunt remarks, and I'm not talking about a cheater or similar low-life or lazy student who gets what they deserve. It could be a student that didn't quite get a straight A but otherwise may have done very well in a very difficult course</p>
<p>However, you won't usually find it out until years later when a reader of a recommendation (one kept on file) - asks WHY did you ask this person to write you a recommendation.</p>
<p>I encouraged my S to send thank you letters to the teachers who were writing his recs (he refused). I figured it would jog their memories to be sure the letters were completed & sent.
The other thing at my kids' HS, students are allowed to give the teachers envelopes for each rec or ask the teachers to turn everything into the college counseling office for it to be sent in one big packet. My S chose the latter method & I THINK the college counselor would send out reminders to all the faculty that recs & apps were due. Don't think my S personally asked any teacher follow-up Qs about recs.</p>
<p>Re: ? @ following up to see if the recc is done: Just ask them about a week before the due date. "Have you gotten around to doing my recommendation yet, which is due XXXX?" If the answer is "no," ask them if they'd like an updated copy of your activities list or the memo that you gave them to help them know what to write. (This is a nice way of providing info to a teacher who may have lost the info that you initially gave them.)</p>
<p>I've written recommendations for students and have appreciated these kind of reminders.</p>
<p>Though what Citation X says may seem intuitive, I think many would be surprised at how many ppl fail to take this into account when asking teachers to write recs.</p>
<p>Also, I think it's more ethical for a teacher to write an unfavorable rec than to write a good rec filled with lies. It's up to the student to determine which teachers will write a positive recommendation letter.</p>
<p>^ wrathofachilles:
I have not heard anyone here suggest that a teacher should write a letter full of lies! My position is that if a teacher feels he or she can not write a good letter for his or her student they should decline to write the letter.</p>
<hr>
<p>I am also a little unsettled by the fact that evidently there are teachers out there feeling more loyalty to nameless faceless admissions representatives than to their own students. A teacher would write a letter and stab a kid in the back? What the heck?</p>
<p>I am not suggesting that every letter be GLOWING. I am simply suggesting that if a teacher can't focus on the positive, then they need to fess up.</p>
<p>I don't see why they'd want to write a negative one either. I mean, if ya can't stand a person, why waste your time on them? LOL. Hate your students? Don't talk to them beyond giving lectures and answering class related questions.</p>
<p>Whether or not it is ethical, some teachers do write deliberately negative recommendations, clearly intended to sabotage an application... and sometimes the teachers that do so are dishonest about their willingness to provide a good recommendation. Several years ago, my daughter needed a recommendation letter to a specialized program (not for college). When she went to ask one teacher to write it, another teacher interrupted and very insistently offered to do the letter. The letter was not confidential but the teacher mistakenly thought it was and put it in a sealed envelope. However, the envelope needed to be opened because the program required that multiple copies of the letter be submitted, and that it be stapled to the application -- so of course my daughter saw it. </p>
<p>The letter was very negative; worse than that, it made statements about my daughter that simply were not true and had no reasonable relationship to the truth. My daughter had always felt that the teacher didn't like her, so she would not have asked him for a letter if he had not volunteered. So that clearly was a case of a teacher with malicious intent, who deliberately injected himself into the process with the idea of undermining my d's chances.</p>
<p>I am sure that situations like this are rare, but there are times when a teacher purposefully writes negative stuff in a rec. There could also be situations where a teacher inadvertantly writes something negative without realizing the impact of a statement. </p>
<p>Students do not have to sign a waiver of the right to see the letters, and for obvious reasons my daughter did not sign the waivers. Both my kids saw all the college recommendation letters that their teachers wrote. Since my daughter was admitted to several reach colleges, I am quite certain that her refusal to sign the waiver did not in any way harm her.</p>
<p>According to A is for Admission, admissions officers sometimes do record names of recommenders who glorify every student. I'm actually a little bit afraid of that in my case because the two teachers I asked for my rec's are very popular among the seniors. Almost my entire math class asked our teacher! However, colleges also know that we're a very high-achieving school, so it should be alright if a teacher checks off more than one "top few in my career" boxes. At the same time, though, that just might mean that they'll pay less attention to the boxes and more atention to the written recommendation. And I know my math teacher focuses on a few select strengths that each of us have displayed in his class, so every rec is still specific.</p>
<p>About calling it a recommendation... in my school, at the end of the first semester, our teachers put down which course they're recommending us for in the next school year. Even if they recommend that you go from an Honors course to a College Prep one, it's still called a recommendation. You could argue that a recommendation has to intend to seek something greater and better, but in that case the teacher thinks that the student would be better suited for a less challenging curriculum, so then it's still fine to call it a rec. In college admissions, not everyone would fit in at every school, so it is actually very useful when recommenders don't write positive recommendations. It means that someone who personally knows the student doesn't think they'd be a good fit and/or that the student doesn't have very good judgment ability - either way, they wouldn't be a desirable candidate.</p>
<p>All in all, I agree with HImom that recs aren't THAT useful. A good rec won't get you in - it's expected. A bad rec may keep you out; an excellent rec that highlights something truly special about you may boost your appeal strategy, aka help you get in (if, say, an applicant is very involved in his environmental club and volunteers for environmental organizations and wants to be an ecologist, and the recommender mentions specific times when he related the class material to the environment, it'll show that others recognize his passion, which is better than someone saying "here, I'm passionate about this"). Otherwise, though, it's just like a checkmark on a long list of expectations. It's actualy kind of like standardized test scores. Like asking a teacher to rate you on a scale of 600 to 2400. A 2400 would be impressive; a 2250 would be solid; a 1500 would hurt you.</p>