<p>According to USNews, Princeton and Harvard are TIED for #1, and Yale is #3.</p>
<p>So I'm not sure what ranking you're talking about.</p>
<p>whatever. same diff. my point still stands.</p>
<p>Well, it's amazing what taking a day off of these boards will do. I come back to...nothing new from Byerly. Only a lot more of the same incessant vitriolic TRASH. Any level-headed person can see that Harvard and Yale are on the same level. As numerous people have noted before (including myself), it comes down to personal preference. You can point out that 80% of common admits "routinely choose Harvard over Yale," but that does not point to Harvard's superiority. Harvard, for whatever reason (age, image, etc.), is perceived as the "better" school, largely because it is Harvard. I mean, honestly, the name "Harvard" reeks of exclusivity, prestige, and a general "holier-than-thou" attitude. Yale, too, is an impressive, prestigious school, but for hundreds of years, people have looked to Harvard because it was founded first. After all, in the century or two after Harvard was founded, it was certainly going to have a better reputation - 100 years' worth of reputation certainly counted more than 35, for example. That has endured, for any number of reasons - again, largely because Harvard was first. Does that make Yale any less of a school? Not at all. If anything, the 80% statistic shows something unique about Yale - the 20% who choose to attend Yale aren't afraid to put what's right for them above someone else's notion of prestige. True, it may be that Harvard has a better program for them, or any number of other reasons, but you can hardly use statistics like that - or arguments of "prestige" - to make your case for Harvard.</p>
<p>And let me just say that US News & World Report is hardly the measuring stick of the public. It is little more than a corporate instrument.</p>
<p>The simple fact that every post you make, Byerly, begins to the effect of "You're wrong," "Oh, I'm sorry, but you're mistaken," or any other sanitized, overdone, arrogant way of saying "I am better than you; your statements don't matter because I say they don't," points to your inability to function properly in a social environment. You won't be lacking for company at Harvard, I'm sure, and you can bask in the glory of US News-merited prestige while you wander the streets of Cambridge thinking "Thank God I'm not in that trash heap called New Haven." Attitudes such as yours truly disgust me, and I am immeasurably glad that I will not be attending school with you (I presume) next year. They are pitifully superficial. Good-natured rivalry is one thing; arrogant, hateful mockery is quite another. What on Earth prompted you to come into a thread on the Yale board titled "Why Yale over Harvard?" - a thread gathering opinions about why people prefer Yale to Harvard, as it might help prospective students - and start hurling arrogant insults around? No matter - at any rate, you're strengthening the "Yale over Harvard" argument with your behavior.</p>
<p>For what it's worth, Byerly, I pity you. I pity you because you seem to have to validate yourself by throwing arrogant comments at us "annoying" Yalies, because you have the gall to presume your factual superiority (since preference doesn't mean anything to you), and because you can be so incredibly rude when discussing something that is rather petty, to be quite honest. Perhaps I simply have a different viewpoint than you. Neither of my parents graduated from college, I attend a school where college is hardly a priority for most students, and I have been taught to be impressed by a college degree no matter where it's from. I worked extremely hard for my acceptance letter from Yale, and to come on this board and see you put down the accomplishments of Yalies (and Yale in general), simply because you prefer the institution that happened to score a point higher in US News' ranking system this year, makes me sick. So please stop bashing - because that IS what you are doing - the preferences of others and trying to reinforce your opinion with "facts" which all too often turn out to be preferences. Or, if you can't do that, go back to the Harvard board and become the first ever in Harvard's illustrious history (as you seem to think) to bash Yale among the rest of the Crimson.</p>
<p>(Applause.)</p>
<p>Now, do you feel better, Vivaldi, after your primal scream?</p>
<p>Have all the "feelings" and "preferences" you want ...Yale is a great school, and I have never said otherwise. Just don't fudge the crime stats!</p>
<p>Guys, Byerly is not a Harvard student. He posts relentlessly, 24/7 as NYCfan on other well-known college discussion websites (hugs and kisses, PR etc.). He is a Harvard college graduate, read law at UMich, probably retired, interviews for Harvard, knows people at Princeton, reads all the college dailies daily, has access to a huge storehouse of interesting data, is a relentless Harvard booster, is first to post on any news relating to the Ivies, disdains the top LACs as "teeny tinies," trashes Yale at every opportunity (for that reason posts more on the Yale board than the Harvard board), rarely posts about his other alma mater UMich, never provides any truly helpful admissions-related info, is more interested in polemics than friendly banter (even with strained attempts at such), and is fun to have around as long as you don't take him too seriously. His postings work better at the other wild-wild-west-no-holds-barred websites. His style is not really suited to the public t</p>
<p>wow. how do you know that?</p>
<p>Ask him. He won't deny the details.</p>
<p>Excuse me, Byerly, but I would hardly characterize my previous post as a "primal scream," and once again, I don't appreciate your condescension. In fact, I think my post summed up the feelings of most future Yalies/hopeful Yalies/Yale supporters on this board. Don't presume Harvard's superiority because prestige and statistics seem to point to it, and don't come on the Yale board to mock Yale. Do that somewhere else; you certainly aren't helping any prospective students on CC.</p>
<p>And what's more, I never once "fudged the crime stats" - I conceded that your data (although a few years old) showed otherwise, but that several people on here had heard/seen statistics that suggested otherwise, whether online, in periodicals, from admissions representatives, or whatever. Just because those people have heard differently and are sharing what they heard doesn't make them liars; they aren't posting on here using known lies, as you seem to think, to bash Harvard and scare people away from Cambridge, Massachusetts. Most of these posters are probably APPLYING to Harvard! If anything, they were trying to put down a stereotype that has endured far too long, which people like you seem to take as empirical evidence of Harvard's superiority. Crime rates in and of themselves don't mean anything - if you visit Yale without knowing the 2001 crime statistics or hearing a lot of antique stereotypes, you aren't going to feel unsafe at all (heck, you probably wouldn't feel unsafe even if you did hear them). Crime rates are only measures, and the area around Yale feels just fine. New Haven might not be as educated, as wealthy, or as elite as Cambridge, but that doesn't mean that it's a bad city or that prospective Yalies should be scared off because Cambridge had a few less muggings in 2001 than New Haven did.</p>
<p>Please, enough with the petty attacks on Yale and on Yale board posters. It's really getting old.</p>
<p>I have never, EVER, "bashed" Yale; you must be thinking of someone else. But I do object to those who try to "boost" it - or any other school - using dubious data. The crime stats are readily available,</p>
<p>Then leave it as an objection; don't belittle anyone or their posts with arrogant remarks, especially by referring to them as "primal," "other-directed," "pathetic," "clueless," "mistaken," "quite wrong," "insecure" braggarts.</p>
<p>And while you're at it, look at sprezzatura's advice again:
<a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?p=250790#post250790%5B/url%5D">http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?p=250790#post250790</a></p>
<p>Enough already. I'm finished with this. There's no need to get all frustrated over one person who we don't even know. No one is going to win this argument because Byerly thinks he's right and everyone else is wrong, and vice versa. So let's all just take the advice from my post vivaldi linked to and, simply, just stop.</p>
<p>Or you could just add Byerly to your "ignore" list (found in profile).</p>
<p>haha newt, i forgot about that!</p>
<p>To the average person, Harvard is the "best" but any well-educated person should realize that Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Stanford and MIT are equally good and have their own strengths and weaknesses. All this talk of rivalries and the fact that Yale seems to bash Harvard more often really doesn't mean anything. At our school (Princeton), at the tent sale I was able to find "Harvard Sucks," "Yale Sucks," and "Duck Fartmouth" shirts. What does that mean? Has Dartmouth suddenly ascended to challenge HYPSM supremacy? No, its name just lends itself better to a funny slogan. And thats really all this rivalry stuff is, fun. Sure, I have noticed taht Yale seems to bash Harvard more than Harvard, Princeton or Stanford bash each other but maybe thats because Yale's student body is a bit different from the latter school's. Not better, not worse, just different. </p>
<p>And, putting my personal hatred for Yale aside (just a matter of preference, don't worry about it), Yale's campus has considerably less crime than Harvard's. Yes, New Haven isn't as safe as Cambridge but its campus sure as hell is safer. Here's the crime data to prove it (keep in mind that these are raw stats, Yale's student body is about 1/2 of Harvard's and Princeton is about 1/4 of Harvard's so if they were all equally crimeridden, Harvard would have twice the number of incidents as Yale)</p>
<p>Harvard: <a href="http://ope.ed.gov/security/InstIdCrime.asp?CRITERIA=C%5B/url%5D">http://ope.ed.gov/security/InstIdCrime.asp?CRITERIA=C</a>
Yale: <a href="http://ope.ed.gov/security/InstIdCrime.asp?CRITERIA=C%5B/url%5D">http://ope.ed.gov/security/InstIdCrime.asp?CRITERIA=C</a>
Princeton: <a href="http://ope.ed.gov/security/InstIdCrime.asp?CRITERIA=C%5B/url%5D">http://ope.ed.gov/security/InstIdCrime.asp?CRITERIA=C</a></p>
<p>Looking at the oncampus burglary, looks like Yale and Princeton are about the same. But, hmm, seems like Harvard has almost EIGHT times as many incidents as Yale does (and the number has been increasing over the past three years).</p>
<p>here's an exerpt:</p>
<p>"Yale University Accused Of Violating Federal Campus Crime Reporting Law</p>
<p>New Haven, Conn.-Security On Campus, Inc. (SOC) is calling for a federal investigation into Yale University's crime reporting practices following charges raised in the current issue of the Yale Alumni Magazine that the school has been underreporting campus rapes. According to the article, "Lux, Veritas, and Sexual Trespass" written by Emily Bazelon, Yale University hasn't collected sexual assault and other crime statistics from school officials other than police, a practice that violates the federal Jeanne Clery Disclosure of Campus Security Policy and Campus Crime Statistics Act.</p>
<p>"Keeping the truth about campus violence hidden puts student lives at risk needlessly," said Connie Clery, who co-founded SOC with her husband Howard after their daughter Jeanne was brutally raped and murdered on campus at Lehigh University in 1986. "The federal law named in memory of our daughter is designed to keep students safe, and to make sure that image-conscious schools can't keep crime secret by handling it internally rather than by referring it to the police. Failing to report honestly is unacceptable, and we're demanding that Yale immediately correct their crime statistics."</p>
<p>Yale claims that "the total number of crimes occurring on and around Yale's campus was below the Ivy League average," but the Yale Alumni Magazine article quotes several campus officials saying that they have never submitted crime statistics as the Clery Act requires. Yale, with eleven thousand students, reported only 5 sex offenses between 2000 and 2002, while Dartmouth with only half as many students reported 10, and Duke with twelve thousand students reported 28 according to the article. The alumni magazine article profiles at least one sexual assault omitted from Yale's statistics.</p>
<p>The complaint filed by Clery's organization with the U.S. Department of Education on August 19th is calling for a full scale investigation of Yale's crime reporting, and for the immediate correction of the school's most current statistics due to be given to students arriving on campus this fall. Schools that violate the Jeanne Clery Act risk fines up to $27,500 for each unreported statistic, and loss of their eligibility to participate in federal student aid programs."</p>
<p>wow this thread is going to be locked soon...</p>
<p>All you need is love, people.</p>
<p>that wont happen</p>
<p>I'm certainly not trying to support the arguments Byerly has been throwing around in this thread, but I'm not sure those crime report stats are correct. I checked the one for the large public U. in my city and the numbers were extremely low in that case. There have been many more incidents involving students on campus reported in the local newspaper....</p>