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<p>Can’t resist weighing in here – I see dissipation as a passive letting go of behavioral standards whereas debauchery is more of an active embracing of all that is naughty. :)</p>
<p>Can we talk more about the early part of JE? My recent re-reading has me finding that section the most riveting whereas in the past I zoomed through it to get to all the romance. I kept comparing the childhood Jane to Dickens child orphan characters.</p>
<p>^^^ Agree with the difference between dissipation and debauchery provided by sewhappy.</p>
<p>Regarding Bronte’s preference for all things English, here’s Jane’s commentary re Adele:</p>
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<p>I just finished Jane Eyre last night. Though I had read it before, I didn’t remember the book ending with St. John. I like him better as a missionary in India than as the man preparing to leave, intent on Jane going with him as wife. I do understand why those around him admire him - love him even. Certainly he has a soft spot for his sisters:</p>
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<p>Such a contrast to his bullying Jane later to become his missionary wife. The care for his sisters comes from a sincere love for them; he loves Rosamund enough to stay away from her. St. John admires Jane and feels she can serve his purpose grandly but he doesn’t love her. I think St. John forgets the man he aspires to be, operating on “The end justifies the means” adage to coerce Jane into being who she is not.</p>
<p>Any thoughts on why Bronte ends the book with St. John?</p>
<p>I also find Jane’s early life of more interest than her time with Mr. Rochester.</p>
<p>An essay in my critical edition of Jane Eyre addresses why Bront</p>
<p>^learning so much - Great !!!</p>
<p>It’s interesting to contrast JE to her sister’s work, Wuthering Heights, which (if I am remembering correctly) has little to no Christian theme.</p>
<p>I don’t remember Wuthering Heights any better than I remembered Jane Eyre before I reread it, but I found this online:</p>
<p>[Religion</a>, Metaphysics, and Mysticism in Wuthering Heights](<a href=“Religion, Metaphysics, and Mysticism in Wuthering Heights”>Religion, Metaphysics, and Mysticism in Wuthering Heights)</p>
<p>I’ll add my 2 cents. I never liked JE the novel, as I felt Jane was choosing between 2 narcissistic men. They appreciated her work ethics, her lack of vanity, her intellect, and chose to ignore her passionate and loving nature. Being wanted by a missionary because she could add to his work, without being a distraction, is insulting to her core femininity. Being wanted by mr. R As she was so sensible is not much better. </p>
<p>This was my first time reading WSS. I liked how the mother and daughter loved their tropical island and the people around them. Both were subjugated to men. The beautiful mother was sent to live in isolation with a couple. Not only did this man sexually abuse her, but he allowed other men to do the same. Aunt Cora tries to get the half-brother, Mr. Mason, to think of Antoinette’s needs, e.g. With setting up a Trust for her care, not just following the English custom of giving all her money and property to Mr. R… Only the women in her life, Cora and christophine, state their distrust of Mr. R. And the need to protect A, financially and emotionally.</p>
<p>And the four years of marriage? Mr. R. Spent his time walking and swimming and drinking rum. Christophine turned A into a drug addict, to help her bear her unhappiness. By the end, A was happy to share kisses with sandi. Unfortunately, she wouldn’t seriously consider running away with a native man. Mr. R rebuked her for flirting, but he was the one sleeping with other women, and especially in room next to A’s. He took her money, he verbally abused her, he tried to steal her identity (the Bertha business). He rejected her in many ways. If hired help were supportive to A, he’d force them to leave the house. He didn’t take her to England for her benefit, but to continue his control of her. Someone who was used to walking and riding over an island, who knew all the lakes and fauna, would consider it a prison to be held in an attic room with a window too high to see from. </p>
<p>The Mr. R in JE was still a self-centered man. </p>
<p>I ramble. In sum, give me Jane Austen’s Emma rather than mr. R and Jane.</p>
<p>Mr. R certainly has an interest in Jane’s works of art. On pp. 138, he picks out 3 paintings in particular, and Jane takes some time describing each one for us. Any thoughts about the significance of these pieces?</p>
<p>(Thanks for the Middlemarch recommendation, NJTheatreMOM.)</p>
<p>Yes, I’d be interested in what people think about those paintings too. They certainly sounded weird!</p>
<p>I’m pecking this out on my phone and am not skilled enough with it to write much now, but I found this: [Jane</a> Eyre’s Three Paintings: Biblical Warnings & Greek Legends](<a href=“http://www.victorianweb.org/authors/bronte/cbronte/bolt7.html]Jane”>Jane Eyre's Three Paintings: Biblical Warnings & Greek Legends)</p>
<p>I can’t say I fully endorse this writer’s opinion, but she gave me a good laugh: [url=<a href=“Reader, I shagged him: Why Charlotte Brontë was a filthy minx | Classics | The Guardian”>Reader, I shagged him: Why Charlotte Brontë was a filthy minx | Classics | The Guardian]m.guardian.co.uk[/url</a>]</p>
<p>(bookworm, note the Emma reference. :))</p>
<p>Thanks for the last two links! I have found both Wuthering Heights and Jane Eyre to be really compelling-so interested in the Bronte sisters!
In the copy of Jane Eyre that I checked out from the libary was reprinted a very critical review by a woman magazine writer of the time. She thought Jane Eyre was scandalous.
I loved the description of painting and how Jane valued having art in her life.
It’s interesting to look at how much class consiousness pervaded all aspects of life at that time.</p>
<p>PATheaterMom, I think there is still more class consciousness in the UK than in the US.*</p>
<p>I believe that in the time of the Bront</p>
<p>Here is something else that I found about Jane’s paintings:</p>
<p><a href=“http://■■■■■■■.com/bv3qmf5[/url]”>http://■■■■■■■.com/bv3qmf5</a></p>
<p>To me, the idea that the paintings represent premonitions (or a prefiguring of events in the novel) is an odd one. Why would Bront</p>
<p>Mary - Great links! The second was particularly entertaining. </p>
<p>I’m sure the paintings had greater significance than I gave them when I was reading. My interpretation was simple. I thought when Rochester looked at Jane’s paintings he saw there was depth to her. He was impressed and praised her work. Praise was not something Jane was used to hearing and it helped to deepen her feelings for Rochester. I remember thinking some her paintings were dark and I assumed they were reflective of her inner turmoil. </p>
<p>NJTM - Great quote by Vidal!</p>
<p>I enjoyed reading Jane Erye, but I did not like Wide Sargasso Sea. I found myself rereading passages to get a clearer understanding about what was written. Maybe I couldn’t get past Mr. Rochester’s character. WSS was supposed to be a prequel to Jane Erye, but, in my opinion, the characters should have been named differently and the book not associated with Jane Erye at all. I was very frustrated that the story told did not match the story I had in my head.</p>
<p>I guess the sketches made me stop a minute because Jane gave us so much detail. All three to me seemed to fore<em>shadow</em> the presence of Bertha (the bejeweled hand, the wild eyes, and Mr. Rochester’s exclamation of Latmos, which I took to be an exotic land).</p>
<p>I have to admit that I never had much empathy for Bertha, and for that point of view, I appreciated WSS. I also enjoyed the descriptive prose. And, when he saw the book, my S said to me that it was “the worst book I ever read,” so I had an inkling I’d like it. ;)</p>
<p>Well, I’m hesitant to say too much about WSS yet, because we are officially talking about Jane Eyre first, and I think Mary is still away on her trip.</p>
<p>But I will say that Mr Rochester showed great gentleness toward a moth at one point in Wild Sargasso Sea! :)</p>
<p>I can’t help wondering if that had anything to do with the fact that the 2006 BBC miniseries of “Jane Eyre” portrayed Rochester as an insect collector. :D</p>
<p>Great link about the paintings,and glad that psychmom brought up th discussion.
Perhaps it’s been my recent fascination with Joseph Campbell, but I’m quite fascinated by dreams and art symbolism. </p>
<p>Regarding the paintings- “The second painting is not religious but belongs to Greek legend. It portrays the “Evening Star;” the “foreground only the dim peak of a hill . . . leaves slanting as if by a breeze”. . . .“Rising into into the sky, was a woman’s shape to the bust.” The painting is immediately identified by Rochester, who asks Jane, “Where did you see Latmos? For that is Latmos.” In Greek legend Latmos, or more correctly Mt Latmos, is where the goddess Selene first saw and fell in love with Endymion, vowing to protect him for ever. Already we are informed of Jane’s emotional commitment at only her second meeting with Rochester. It should also be noted that it is Rochester, not Jane, who identifies the setting for the painting.”</p>
<p>"The third and final painting in Jane Eyre is the most egnamatic of the three. It is</p>
<p>a head, — a clossal head…Above the temples, amidst wreathed turban folds…gleamed a ring of white flame…This pale crescent was “The likeness of a Kingly Crown” what it diademed was "the shape which shape had none.</p>
<p>For the message hidden within this strange painting we must again look to the Book of Job.</p>
<p>“I put on my righteousness as a garment and it clothed me; justice like a cloak or a turban (diadem) wrapped me round. I was eyes to the blind and feet was I to the lame. [Job Ch 24: verses 14 -15]
At the end of the novel when Jane and Rochester are eventually re-united at Ferndean, he is both blind and a cripple — thus fulfilling the prophecy of Jane’s painting.”</p>
<p>[Jane</a> Eyre’s Three Paintings: Biblical Warnings & Greek Legends](<a href=“http://www.victorianweb.org/authors/bronte/cbronte/bolt7.html]Jane”>Jane Eyre's Three Paintings: Biblical Warnings & Greek Legends)</p>
<p>Just realized the above link was posted earlier by Mary13----
Also, Mary 13 enjoyed your racy link regarding Jane Eyre ! Spunky</p>
<p>Call me dense, but I don’t know why either Jane’s conscious or unconscious mind would lead her to produce paintings having to do with Mr Rochester, when she hadn’t even met Rochester yet.</p>
<p>It doesn’t seem to jibe with the tone of the rest of the book.</p>