Will my applications get refused with my grades? - French student

Chance Me / Match Me!
1

Hi there!

I’m an international student from France, and I’ve already applied to my wanted colleges in december.
I’m in my last year of high school (Terminale) and in the Scientific series, with ISN (Informatique et Sciences du Numérique) as option.
I would like to know if I have any “chance” to get rescinded with my poor senior year marks, but also if I have to wonder as much as I do right now. I’ll explain.
First, here are the universities I attended:

NYU
Pace University
UMass Amherst
BU
Drexel University
College of Charleston
All 9 UC campuses (so not SF)

The thing is that I already received a “decision” from umass, saying that they couldn’t look forward for me for my selected major: computer science, as they say it is a very competitive one. So I’m starting to freaking out a lil bit, but I guess that’s normal?
Here are my test scores:

TOEFL IBT: 95 (passed on april 9th)
SAT: 610 ERW 640 Math 1250 Total (passed on may 7th)

I don’t have any GPA as I’m in France, but my mean was around 14-13/20 during high school. I always have been the lazy one who doesn’t work but is in the average (and who is perfectly ok with it) but this year, it is different. I always had an average of 14-13 in maths, but this year… I’ve got 9/20 and it’s like it’s going down! I’m working hard to get 10 (which is the average) but it is the general average; I don’t think that’ll make it if I want to go to this kind of universities.

My marks in english are around 19, I have 16-17 in European English (another option) and I’m fine with every course this year, which means around 12-13; it’s just math that takes me down morally because I know it is >very< important. I’ll have to send (after translating) my first term transcript through the common app soon (mid year report), that means my 9/20 in maths.

For >your< information, I guess colleges don’t give a damn, I always loved maths, really. I’m reading a lot of books on it, not very technical (the more philosophical ones) just for the passion of math, but this year… Let’s say my teacher is horrible, and that is seen on my marks. I give a lot of importance in teachers (at least in HS, I know in university it’ll be totally different) and this year mine is horrible, my classmates are complaining about her, even other teachers, and even supervisors, to tell you her reputation! But she’s old and has experience, so they won’t do anything. And as long as you have a teacher, you have to stick with it for the rest of the year, so I know teachers aren’t an excuse, I have to work for myself, but it’s just to give you the situation.

So my question is, do I have to worry? Do you think I have big chances to do not get accepted in any of these schools?
And UC says that if I fail to earn a C or better in any class, I need to contact them. Is it the case here? Does my 9/20 in maths represent a D, knowing that all my courses are above average, and I’ve always been good in maths before? And I know every college has his own FRENCH - USA marks conversion chart (in most of them, my 9/20 represents a D), so I prefer to ask.
If you have some better options for me, like others colleges I could try to apply (I know it’s a bit late but why not). I thought of University of Iowa too, with Arizona State University, but as their deadlines are later I’m still thinking.

Also, I’m ok financially.

Thank you very much for your time.

2

First; I’m sorry to say this but colleges won’t consider the fact that your average dropped in math because of your math teacher. They’ll probably see the grade and some may ask about it, but most wont. The UCs, however, do require you to contact them, so I’d do that as soon as possible (but when you do so, don’t play the victim, don’t blame if all on the teacher. Yes, she’s probably horrid, I’ve gone through a similar situation before, but you also have to take some responsibility for what happened).

Your SAT score is below average at NYU, BU, Brexel, UC Berkeley, UCLA, UCSD, UCSB, and UC Davis (Although it is close to the average in some of these). I go school in a country that also has a marking scale that is out of 20. In regards to your country, when your 9 in math is converted to the American system, it really brings your GPA down. In total, I would say that you probably have a 3.0-3.5 GPA, which is not very high for the colleges that you’re applying to, but you do have a shot. I would suggest that you do apply to the University of Iowa and Arizona State University JUST IN CASE. Hopefully you have good ECs and essays, which would make you a more competitive applicant.

Some statistics: Average SAT score, average GPA, and acceptance rate at every college that you applied to, plus my opinion (Just an opinion on whether or not I think you’ll be accepted):

NYU: 1410, 3.71, 32% (REJECTED)
Pace University: 1160, 3.31, 81% (ACCEPTED)
BU: 1370, 3.59, 37% (REJECTED)
Drexel University: 1270, 3.44, 75% (ACCEPTED)
College of Charleston: 1230, 3.9, 72% (REJECTED/WAITLISTED)

UCs:
Berkeley: 1440, 3.86, 18% (REJECTED)
UCLA: 1370, 4.29, 20% (REJECTED)
San Diego: 1350, 4, 38% (REJECTED)
Santa Barbara: 1360, 3.96, 40% (REJECTED)
Irvine: 1240, 3.92, 41%(REJECTED/WAITLISTED)
Davis: 1290, 3.99, 41% (REJECTED)
Riverside: 1170, 3.6, 60% (ACCEPTED/WAITLISTED)
Santa Cruz: 1210, 3.66, 53% (REJECTED/WAITLISTED)

3

Thank you very much for your answer! I’ll definitely contact UCs, and send my application to ASU and UI.
I knew that NYU, BU were some kind of “dream” schools and that I had very poor chances to get accepted, (even less now with those grades)

Thank you for your approximations, I see things more clearly now. But just another thing, what do you think are my chances to ASU and UI?

4

I’m also a French student who’s been on CC for a while. Your marks are ok, I don’t think it goes to a 3.0 (as French teachers grade horribly), but your 9 in maths is definitely going to hurt you. I wouldn’t start looking to translate your marks into gpa, it’s pointless.

Finally there’s another Frenchie to suffer with me.

5

Hey mate! Yeah I knew for my 9 in maths… I’ll be honest with UC telling that it’s because of a lack of personal work and that I’m trying hard to get correct marks.
If you have any tips for me, Theoddorre, I’m listening!

6

Honestly @wave2007 I am confused with the college application system as well, so I can’t give definite advice. You need to ask some people who really know what they are talking about, so try to look for people who have given a lot of answers around here.

You could’ve brought your SAT score a liiiiitle bit higher though! :slight_smile:

My Terminale is pretty rough for me too, especially as French people do not care about applying to unis yet (I think APB just started?) and I am the only one stressing.

7

Yeah I was so confused too, I started at the end of Premiere but I wasn’t knowing a lot so I took the SAT on may (I didn’t know that I could take it as late as october for example!) but yeah, could’ve marked higher!
Whatever, it’s a little bit late now to worry about that :slight_smile:

Yes APB just started (and I’ll need to fill it too as we’re obliged to do it anyway) and I’m quite stressed too. But I’m telling myself that it’s ok, I guess I’ll get accepted to my safety schools, and even if I’m not, I can stick to France for 3 years and come for my Master in USA. (That’s what I’m telling myself to do not stress :slight_smile: )

8

Just for curiosity @Theoddorre, what is your situation? Are you suffering from Terminale too?

9

Well I am in the advanced section in my school + Option Internationale au Baccalauréat + APs so honestly it’s been rough, especially with the Bac Blanc which just ended. Right now I am starting my interview period, I hope that they will go fine.

Is this the situation you are asking about? :smiley:

10

@wave2007 You’re welcome :slight_smile: Don’t lose hope though (on NYU and BU), there is still a slight chance that you could get accepted, if your extracurriculars and essays really make you stand out! But be aware that you most likely won’t get in.

I think you could definitely get into both ASU and UI; those would be, in my opinion, your safety schools because they’re the ones that you will most likely get in to. I still think you have high chances of getting into Pace University, Drexel University, College of Charleston, and UC Riverside, and medium chances of getting into UC Irvine, Santa Cruz, and Davis.

11

@Theoddorre cool! Hope it’ll go well for you! I’ve got my Bac Blanc at the beginning of March, I don’t do any AP courses but I’m in the international section aswell. Are you attending an Ivy? (asking for the interview)

@luxsit Thank you again for your informations, I’m less worried right now. My ECs are far from extraordinary (some athletics, and a lot of code as I attend for a computer science major) and my essays are ok (I guess).
Let’s hope for Pace University, Drexel University, College of Charleston, and UC Riverside, I’d be so happy to be accepted in at least one of those universities. The only reason I worry is to be refused from all, if I’m accepted to at least one it’s totally ok for me!
Cheers!

12

@wave2007 yes I have my Dartmouth interview tomorrow, then Yale, Duke and Princeton next week. You’re doing an OIB? Also, don’t worry for ECs. I think AOs know that we spend around 9h per day at school, and the number of courses we have to take (especially if you do an OIB).

13

@Theoddorre Wow that’s an impressive set! I wish you the best.
I misunderstood, thought you were talking about european sections, not OIB. So no, I’m not doing any OIB :slight_smile:

Yes I guess they’re aware of this, along with the GPA that doesn’t mean so much in France as our teachers tend to mark very differently, as you said before.

14

So, here’s the verdict in case people with the same problem are wondering:

College of Charleston - Accepted
Pace University - Accepted
UMass Amherst - Accepted (alternate major Mathematics)
Drexel University - Accepted
Boston University - Rejected
New York University - Rejected
UC Davis - Accepted
UC Merced - Accepted
UC Santa Cruz - Accepted
UC Riverside - Waitlist
UC Los Angeles - Rejected
UC Santa Barbara - Rejected
UC San Diego - Rejected
UC Irvine - Rejected
UC Berkeley - Rejected

UC Davis was my top choice, I’ve already sent my SIR. I was surprised by the amount of Yes!

15

Thanks for sharing - that’s interesting - I guess being a french played out positively for you, because I don’t think you would have got in with those stats to US Davis (no offense) if you were an American :slight_smile:
@Theoddorre how did it go for you? What are your stats? Do you mind sharing?

Which schools were you aiming in France? INSAs or Classes Preparatoires?

I’m curious because I’m from European country (your neighborhood french speaking country :-)) - I did my High-school in the US and I don’t know if it’s better to apply as a local or an international.

16

@eloywin No problem at all, I’m sharing the same point of view, and one of the funniest point is that UMass Amherst accepted me for a Mathematics major but mathematics is the only field where I failed…

Anyway, I’m still a little bit worried, I don’t think UC Davis will rescind acceptance, I have sent a letter to all UCs explaining my fail before they released decisions and still got in, and I also uploaded my marks to UC Davis a month ago and they didn’t tell me anything so far. Any reasons that I should be worried?

17

@eloywin DEFINITELY apply as a local.

Results:

Accepted: University of Minnesota (with 10k scholarship - instate), McGill, Muhlenberg, UCSD, UCLA
Waitlisted: Vanderbilt
Rejected: Amherst, Duke, UCB, Harvard, Yale, Princeton, UPenn, Cornell, Columbia, Dartmouth

Stats:

SAT:1500 (720 Eng, 780 Maths), 21 essay
SAT Subject Test: 800 Maths 2, 800 Bio M
Toefl: 115
Moyenne: 18.5/20

I’ll skip the extracurriculars, because they’re long and not useful as most of them were not done in France. The essays were good I think.

PS. I asked for a large amount of financial aid, which might have been one of the causes of my rejections. I am also intending to do pre-med, which does not help. If you apply as a local, the schools will be need-blind. Don’t hesitate to send me a message if you need any more info.

18

@wave2007 If the admission is not under conditions, once you’re in you’re in for good :slight_smile: Are you excited?! It’s a big life change!!

@Theoddorre you have awesome stats - sorry you didn’t get in into the ivies - yes pre-med is VERY competitive, also yes they do prefer internationals who will pay in full (it’s the reason why they accept internationals in the first place for some universities - not the ivies)

As for applying. I’m only concerned with admission like @wave2007, because I won’t get any money even as a local from the need blind schools: my dad’s earnings are above their (actually very high) limits. So if I could get in more easily as an International I’m thinking about applying as an international :slight_smile:

Do you plan to attend or you will stay in France? UCLA is very good, but you will pay full rate right?
Also is it better to go to undergrad/engineering school in France (if you don’t get more money from the US universities?) and then go back to the US for grad school? We know a brunch of french doctors who did their residencies in the US after french university, and my uncle actually went to a Grande Ecole and then did his Msc in the USA - the admission rate for the Msc was higher than for the undergrad and he was able to find a job in the USA afterwards.

What’s your end-goal?

19

@eloywin Yes I am! Totally! The conditions are the basic ones - “C or better in academics” which is the one that annoys me, as I’ve had 9/20 in mathematics and this is considered as a D in most conversion charts I’ve seen, so that’s why I’m worried. But as I am over 10/20 in all other courses, I don’t know if they consider it as a D.

20

@eloywin I don’t even think you will be allowed to apply as an international, as long as your transcripts are from US. It’s way harder for internationals to get into top US schools (such as Ivies). These schools are a lot more political than others (I heard), and they want diversity (main reason why they admit international students).

Considering that I need to save money for medical school, I will not attend UCLA and I will go to the University of Minnesota. I pay as much as in-state students do, which is a great advantage. Medicine is not bad in France, but it’s not what I enjoy. I want to continue studying humanities and foreign languages, something you can’t do in France if you want to do medicine.

In most cases, I heard that it’s easier to get into a graduate school in the US than to get into an undergraduate. There are way more internationals in graduate than in undergraduate. However, here again medicine is an exception, as not every med school accepts internationals. I would also have to self-study for the MCAT, and I can only imagine all the trouble created by international transcripts. Plus, if I don’t get accepted into med school after my first try, I can always work for a year and reapply. I don’t know after how many years I can have permanent residency.

For engineering, I heard that US grad schools appreciate the Grandes Ecoles, but I’m not interested in that, so I didn’t question further.