<p>
</p>
<p>This can go the other way too, if the publics are better than the privates (as is the case where we live). Again, our school doesn’t rank, but it routinely turns out the most NMSF and perfect SAT/ACT scorers in the district, if not the state. Something like 40 kids in my son’s graduating class of 550 or so had a perfect 4.0 GPA, too.–which is probably why ranking wouldn’t make a lot of sense.</p>
<p>sally305–I look at a school with 40 kids with 4.0’s and think the opposite of you, why aren’t they challenging those kids if that many students have a 4.0??? We have about 550 kids in our graduating classes as well, 50 of those kids were NMSF or commended. We generally have a dozen kids or so with perfect test scores on at least one test, usually ACT and over the past 8 years or so have had about 2 kids/class with perfect ACT and SAT scores. One year we had 2 kids with 4.0’s, last year there were 5–all friends that made a pact that they would all graduate from high school with 4.0’s. This year. like most years, we will have one with a 4.0, but only through hours and hours of homework–her ACT was a 24, so not a “natural” student. Most of the top 20% of the kids scored 32 or higher on their ACT’s, yet none of them have a 4.0. I would be pretty upset if we had that many kids with a 4.0 quite honestly.</p>
<p>Hmmm. I think most of the kids with those grades at our school ARE being challenged–taking advanced classes, pushing themselves hard, and going on to great colleges. We live in a university town and our school is where many professors and other highly educated people send their kids, so it’s not representative of most places. There is a fringe group of super-pushy parents who claim that their brilliant offspring are not being challenged enough, and have sued the district to offer them more. I think that is actually ridiculous, as most of these under-challenged kids are already going on to very desirable colleges. Not to mention, there are far more kids at the “bottom” who need more help than those whose parents have the time and money to support them. So no, I don’t care one way or another what GPAs kids have. It’s a small issue in the greater scheme of things.</p>
<p>our kids would most likely have a HIGHER rank at any of the private schools around here because they are easier than our public schools</p>
<p>Maybe that does happen regionally. However, when you have a good private school that doesn’t admit a good number of students that a public would HAVE to admit, then that means that the lowest deciles at the private will contain better students than higher than the lowest deciles of the public. </p>
<p>Another factor can be class size at privates. Class sizes at privates tend to be a LOT smaller. My older son’s senior class had less than 50 students. The #6 student in the class had a 4.4 GPA and wasn’t top 10%.</p>
<p>It is a misnomer that colleges that consider rank are blind on this with high schools that do not report it. On the Profile the hs must send with the transcript for each applicant the GPA spread, grading scale, etc., as well as that students GPA is listed. From this the school can extrapolate rank if they choose to use it in admissions. I follow an admissions rep on twitter who specifically commented on this last admissions season. It just gives them more math to do.</p>
<p>Having said this, usually merit is a function of where you fall in the application pool. As M2CK states, the higher you fall the more likely you are to receive merit (if awarded at that school). If you are looking for merit, target schools where your GPA and scores put you in the top 75th percentile. Your rank isn’t going to hinder this.</p>
<p>This might not help at schools that do their merit awards strictly by the numbers, but I have read from an admissions officer who posts on College Confidential that they might give a kid a pass on a rank outside the top 10th if they get the impression that it is a particularly strong graduating class that year, and that another year the same transcript would have put the kid in the top tenth. But they base that, I think, on their knowledge of the various schools.</p>
<p>That particular school doesn’t award merit scholarships; the discussion was about admissions.</p>
<p>I think rank is a really frustrating parameter to deal with. I understand that it’s important for the admissions committee to have some sense of whether a particular transcript represents outstanding or run-of-the-mill achievement in the specific context of the school. But it’s something the student can really not control. It depends on who else is in the class and what those kids choose to enroll in and how hard they choose to work. And also, how many other kids there are! My high school graduating class was <150. You had to be one of a tiny handful to be top 10th. As a practical matter, anything other than straight-A’s was likely to knock you out. My daughter’s graduating class was >350. Maybe there were 35 kids with straight A’s, I honestly don’t know. And at a tiny prep school, you might have a class of 35 all of whom were as qualified as the top tenth of my daughter’s graduating class. Who knows.</p>
<p>I don’t think a kid with top grades and a challenging schedule is rendered less impressive or less qualified by the presence of half-a-dozen other kids with MORE challenging schedules. It just creates an insane arms race that’s simply not necessary.</p>
<p>But it seems to matter to schools because they like to report what % of their admitted students are ranked in the top tenth of their graduating classes. That seems to be a magic number.</p>
<p>Rank is the weak point of my sons application and one of the reasons he will be visiting Alabama next month. He is a NMSF (1600/2320 SATs), weighted GPA 4.25 unweighted 3.75 plus one A in CC not included in transcript or rank but ranks outside 10%.</p>
<p>I have found this very frustrating since the county next door no longer ranks and rank is only reported here once (October senior year) so it is hard to figure rank into the college search. The reason he is outside of the top 10% is a few B’s freshman year and taking honors or grade level English (he worked up to honors junior and senior year).</p>
<p>He really liked Pitt and has applied, school won’t process any transcript request until October, so we are waiting for them to be processed so we can send them to all the Nov. 1 and rolling schools. I am very thankful to schools like Alabama who are straight forward about merit aid esp. for kids outside the “magic” top 10%.</p>
<p>Here are some private colleges that award relatively generous amounts of merit aid:</p>
<p>American … (CDS/C7: Class Rank is “Not Considered” [in admission])
Brandeis … (CDS/C7: Class Rank is “Very Important”)
Case Western (CDS/C7: Class Rank is “Very Important”)
Davidson … (CDS/C7: Class Rank is “Considered”)
Furman … (CDS/C7: Class Rank is “Important”)
Grinnell … (CDS/C7: Class Rank is “Very Important”)
Richmond … (CDS/C7: Class Rank is “Important”)
Rice … (CDS/C7: Class Rank is “Very Important”)</p>
<p>If class rank is a significant factor in admission, I would consider it a factor in merit aid awards (if only indirectly).</p>
<p>Maybe it’s because I’ve been sick, but I feel very dejected about all this. We could be looking forward to a fall with a lot of disappointment and one more-difficult-to-live-with-than-usual teenager.</p>
<p>Don’t feel dejected. Just clarify your strategy and get everyone to hold hands and agree to it. That means X number of schools, with Y number in each category of reach/match/safety. If your daughter says “there is no way I would go to school Z even if it was the only one I got into,” don’t make her apply. Likewise, if there is a school she likes but there is no way you will allow her to go to/pay for, don’t get her hopes up–tell her now. Do your homework on the score ranges for the schools you are seeking merit aid from. And for God’s sake, do not make her apply to any more schools than she has to–I would say 10 is all most people can handle, and for some that’s too many. Even with the Common App, there are still supplements and individual requirements (and schools that aren’t using the Common App) and all the scores and letters to send–it is exhausting even before FAFSA/CSS season starts. </p>
<p>If possible I would make sure your daughter does a couple EA applications, so you will know before the end of the year that she has some options. Honestly, this is exactly what we did and we were the least stressed-out family of anyone I know. And that is with an incredibly laid-back kid, an ex who works in higher ed and Knows Everything, and a stepmother weighing in with her opinions too. All our friends wanted to know what our secret was as they were pulling their hair out and fighting with their kids over the holiday break. By then, it was too late.</p>
<p>At some point in this stressful application time you just HAVE to throw up your hands and realize that it’s out of your hands. Our strategy was to apply early action to all colleges on the list that allowed it and then get the rest in by Thanksgiving. </p>
<p>Getting in somewhere is a huge relief to any student, even if you don’t know how much it will cost. If you’ve applied to a broad enough range of colleges and your child will be happy at any of them, then there’s nothing else to be done. </p>
<p>If you are not sure that your child has applied to enough colleges to insure an affordable choice, I would suggest doing a separate thread on what he/she wants and I’m sure you’ll get some great ideas for just a couple of more schools. You can always visit after acceptance and the financial aid package comes in.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Would you like to share more information about your situation? If your D is hoping for merit aid, she must have pretty good stats (class rank notwithstanding), which is a good starting point. If you’re worried she won’t get it, that must mean you’re concerned about covering your Expected Family Contribution. Is she aiming too high (at schools that are too expensive, too selective, or both)? If so, maybe posters can suggest some alternatives.</p>
<p>Honestly, I think GPA is usually more important than rank, but a good rank can forgive a so-so GPA. As you can see by other posts in this thread some colleges do look at rank, others not so much. You might want to put in a call with your GC and see if it’s true that your daughter’s rank is unusually low this year, if it is, he/she might be willing to make a statement to that effect as part of his/her recommendation.</p>
<p>I came from a small school that didn’t rank, but we were told that the GC would give a rough indication of our percentile in the class. I’m pretty sure than more than 10% of us ended up in the top 10% of the class - given that between Harvard, Yale and Princeton, you already took care of 15% of the class!</p>
<p>I agree that if you can apply EA somewhere - the relief of knowing you are in, makes the rest of the process a lot easier to take!</p>
<p>^D has a GPA of 3.77 (unweighted) with 8 “advanced” courses, and no APs prior to this year (which appears to be the primary reason for the low rank). She has an ACT 32 and has just retaken the SAT to see if she can better her test scores. She is undecided on a major and prefers a larger school in an urban area that would at least include a decent mall (shopaholic). </p>
<p>Currently, the list includes, in no particular order: Stony Brook, SUNY Buffalo, Ohio State, Pittsburgh, Temple, Xavier, St. Joe’s (Philadelphia), Drexel, Northeastern, Alabama, UNC - CH, Vermont, and Penn State. We would like to see the COA come in under $35K. We are in-state in NY, and Stony Brook was supposed to be our financial safety (Buffalo is the “stay local safety”.)</p>
<p>I feel like we’ve been over the possibilities so many times and visited so many places that it’s hard to imagine adding another option. Tentatively or definitely ruled out are Binghamton, Dayton, Miami Ohio, St. John’s NY, Manhattan College, Maryland, American U.</p>
<p>I love unc-ch, but if you need to trim the list, i’d start with that one. Unlikely admit, being OOS, and even if she gets in, COA is (I believe) over 40k/year OOS.</p>
<p>And even if she got in to UNC-CH, her scores are not going to get her merit aid there. Speaking from experience.</p>
<p>She should easily get into most of the schools you list. I think she should qualify for very good aid from Alabama, because they have a program designed to attract talented OOS students, but I am not sure about OSU, Vermont or Penn State. I think she needs more privates, and I would encourage her to add some LACs (potentially near a city) if she is seeking merit awards.</p>
<p>
I’m no expert, but I think this is true. Maybe a couple are reaches. But I don’t see a high reach which is why I wouldn’t cut UNC-CH. Geez, most kids on here have almost nothing but high reaches. Every kid deserves at least one reasonably high reach, as long as they know the odds and the finances.</p>
<p>Edit: I guess I must be a looper. My response precedes the post I’m responding to.</p>
<p>Yes, your D will get the Full Tuition Presidential merit scholarship from Alabama.</p>
<p>Tuscaloosa is a good-sized city (have you visited?). The indoor mall is “so-so”, but the newer “outdoor life style mall” Midtown Village has lots of good shopping and dining. </p>
<p>[Midtown</a> Village Tuscaloosa :: 1800 McFarland Blvd. East, Tuscaloosa, AL. 35404 :: 205.342.1491](<a href=“http://www.midtownvillagetuscaloosa.com/]Midtown”>http://www.midtownvillagetuscaloosa.com/)</p>
<p>There is also lots of shopping on The Strip. That said, on occasional weekends, young ladies probably car-pool into B’ham and shop to their hearts content at The Galleria or The Summit ( I love The Summit)
<a href=“http://www.thesummitonline.com/birmingham/[/url]”>http://www.thesummitonline.com/birmingham/</a></p>