Now it is getting interesting again…
<<< but the veneer of sugar is just that >>>
No, it isn’t. I am not from the South, so I don’t have a native bias. I am from Calif and my H is from a Chicago suburb. Southerners are extremely helpful…it’s not a veneer, it’s their core… Are there some people here who aren’t? sure. Are they native southerners? I don’t know…maybe, maybe not.
But…if “people are pretty much the same everywhere,” then there is little to be shocked by here.
I’m a high school senior who also lives in NJ. Even at seventeen, I cannot believe the ignorance of this post!
I’ve been homeless, and it’s VERY disrespectful to say you “envy” the poor. Our income is only a few thousand over the free-lunch limit, but my estimates are NOWHERE near “free”!
While privileged children received SAT tutoring as freshman, I was looking for a job. My mother works over forty hours a week as a waitress, and she has sciatica. Even so, we’re lower-class. I attend a terrible school. Even with an “A” average, I knew very little material on the SAT. I’ve used these experiences to motivate myself to attend college. I’ll also be working, unlike many wealthy students. Most low-income students aren’t as motivated, and continue the cycle. They aren’t attending college for “free”.
If you’d like to trade places with us, by all means, do so!
Yes, getting interesting!
@newjerseygirl98 and it is worth your efforts, so hang in there. My H was a 1st gen college student who had no money growing up; started working at 14 sweeping floors at Taco Johns, and while in school fulltime did National Guard while also being a cowboy boots salesman to put himself through college first at a cc and then his state university and finally law school. He was scrappy like you, worked hard, ignoring the attitudes of those with more $$. He has been quite successfull. It does pay off in the long run.
@PickOne1 I took computer programming to fulfill my college math requirement before programming was the thing to do because the Columbia TA teaching my calc class of 75 students could not speak a word of English; I was forced to drop the class after 2 weeks. My H never had that problem at his “lowly” public university. He received just as good an education at his public university that had both small class sizes and focussed on quality teaching as I did at my Ivy. Why? Because he made the effort and ignored the fools around him.
“So, here I am frustrated because children of poor families are going to Ivy League (and the like) schools for nearly free. This is an unfair advantage of being poor and I am hereby complaining. Would it actually make sense for my daughters to have loans to pay back after they graduate? Shouldn’t children of poorer families have larger loans? Something is very wrong here. We are being punished for doing everything right. This doesn’t make sense to me at all.”
Are you forreal?
I’m sorry but to me, what you said is ignorant and ridiculous. Lucky you to not know what it’s like to be poor. My parents make 20,000 a year and we live in one of the most expensive, yet dangerous, cities in the united states. It’s tough to even pay the rent every month. And here you are complaining because you make a “measly” 250k a year? Your daughter had a 3.92 weighted GPA and you are saying that she deserves to get into a good university. Well, I had a 4.99 weighted GPA and still, not once did I think I was owed a spot at any school. But let’s look into this further, I went to a selective public school, took 13 AP classes, had a significantly higher GPA than your daughter, and I was accepted into ivy league schools and top universities. If I told you that I got a full ride to all of them because of my income, you’d scream “That’s so unfair!!! The poor have it so much easier!”. You wouldn’t even look beyond my income, no one ever does. But the truth of the matter is that, I have better stats as a low income student, even though my parents could never afford to pay for tutoring or SAT practice sessions. Now you tell me if it’s still “unfair” that I managed to get into great schools, but could not afford to pay even $5000 because that’s 1/4 of my parent’s income. It’s ridiculous. Your daughter isn’t owed anything. I am sure she’s smart and works hard, just like many many students. Think before you say things like that…
There are people that are so ‘tied’ to a region of the country perhaps that they are not open to some things in other regions of the country. Also unmet expectations, even if the bar is ridiculously high.
Maybe some of the ‘niceness’ in some areas is tied to less populated areas of a state, while the city brings out what many in NE expect for ‘toughness’.
We have lived where there is a lot of genuine niceness and helpfulness in three non-connected states, WI, TX, AL. Professionally, you do run into people who are ‘cut-throat’ everywhere. Have lived in small town, medium sized town, largest city in state, Milwaukee, big TX city Houston. One-on-one I have made connections with people in the NE too - maybe that is the key there. There are a lot of different life paradigms going on there which makes things complicated.
I had WI classmates who were in TX for some time but couldn’t adjust (or couldn’t get past some of the Texans who didn’t want ‘northerners’ there). In Houston, I worked with one of the nicest ladies - she was a LPN twice my age, and I was the charge RN, but she would treat my husband and me like family, and boy she had a lot of TX stories to tell, like the ‘chicken ranch’ that was not far from where she grew up.
I have a lot of respect for our state flagship and the UA System. I have entrusted my two DDs’ education to UA and UAB.
It is terrific when one can see a great match between student and academic institution w/o cost considerations. There are a lot of discontent parents/students that should not be, because they and their children have opportunities in this country unlike any country in the world. Negative thinking about others’ opportunities is no way to live a happy life.
I do hope that students like @newjerseygirl98 get through their education without feeling bitter and can get a helping hand when most in need of it. Also @leslie12345 .
Interestingly, I agree with @leslie12356. No one is owed anything including my daughter. My daughter has always made honor roll and high honor roll. She has probably had very few B’s, mostly A’s - she is a great student because she can balance. She is overloaded with extra curriculars and is president of everything - you get the idea. Her mistake in grades is overloading herself - but that’s OK … she’s happy and I am very proud of her.
I myself didn’t come for what I would consider a poor family but we lived in a very middle class area (maybe slightly lower than middle class). We never went without food or housing certainly. Only my dad worked and his salary wouldn’t buy many of the niceties that my friends had (e.g. never went out to eat, never went on real vacations). So I knew what is was like to want a little - I wasn’t spoiled for sure. We had however the most important thing - caring parents who made good decisions. Despite my father making very little and my mom being stay-at-home, they live a very nice retirement now.
For whatever reason, I too received no financial aid for college - well it was probably because I was a horrible student in high school - I blame me for that. My parents did not give me any money whatsoever for college - I could live at home though as long as I attended. I never expected any financial aid either. I had to do it all by myself. But again, I had the support of caring parents (who made good decisions).
However colleges were cheaper 35 or 40 years ago. I don’t mean cheaper overall. I mean cheaper compared to an average salary. This is probably the source of my frustration and the reason I rant. I feel like I do pretty well compared to most but still I cannot look at a $60k+ school for my daughter and justify the expense. I feel like I would be making a bad decision if I did that - and I was taught to make good financial decisions! Sounds like it was my parents fault 
I am not asking you to feel sorry for me and I can definitely see why you would be outraged by my words.
So here are some more words to be outraged by -
I chose a major that was in demand, I put myself through school, got a job and worked hard, married the best person in the world, saved some money, bought a house under my budget, had kids, helped/tutored my kids in school, wrote/write outrageous things on CC, etc. (in that order). The key is - in that order, This is what I mean by doing “everything right”. What is so ironic is that for some reason after adults used to encourage me to get my degree and do well in life, after I did, it almost seems like I did something wrong. The successful in our country are somehow outlaws because of their success - doesn’t make any sense to me all. It took me a long time and a great deal of hard work to get where I am.
I am not saying that if you are poor, its your fault. It’s not. And I am not saying that you don’t deserve an opportunity with some public assistance. You do. I just don’t like what that “opportunity” has become. I don’t like what those expectations have become. I couldn’t afford to go to a super great school (and probably wouldn’t have gotten in anyway). But I did end up graduating from a private school, on my dime. No scholarships and minimal loans. I worked hours that young people today couldn’t dream of.
Because we give away or make available so much money today for school, schools has become addicted. They don’t know how to spend less, only how to spend more. I can think of countless examples - one is - tell me why Rutgers (and other Universities) have textbooks that are special additions for that university AND that those textbooks are deprecated each year so that you cannot sell them. It’s severely limited the used textbook market. This might make sense for a rapidly changing field… but physics? Is the gravitational constant changing from year to year? A 40 year old text book would be just as good.
Now we plan on making community colleges free. This is the stupidest idea I have ever heard. We are taking a system that is already so overburdened with waste and encouraging goof offs to also attend college at the public’s expense. Why would we do that? Community college isn’t really that expensive and there is already money available for people who don’t get a merit scholarship and are poor. So what are we doing?
As I have said or maybe implied before. The only unfair advantage I had was “caring parents who made good decisions” and the government cannot, no matter what, provide that.
I’ll stop now. I have to go back to sleep as I am BMW shopping tomorrow.
Thanks for listening. And let the shots be fired… (eyes closed)
You did SOME things right. But stop patting yourself on the back and saying that you did EVERYTHING right. You did not save early and aggressively for college. You decided to live in a state that is high cost and where you are disdainful of the state flagship. You place a premium on “name brands”. Your kid has good grades and great activities, but test prep didn’t take a front seat (or even the middle seat) in her junior year.
Stop blaming the government. I am a single mom, and we are full pay at s top college this year (junior year). My kid did her part, and I did mine.
When you say I didn’t save, where do you get that? I have plenty of $$ available. In fact I have stated I have enough to pay in full to any college. The question is what does “afford” mean. I live in a state with a high cost of living but living here is better than living in other places - our schools are better for instance. I lived in the south for 12 years and then moved back home when my kids were ready for school. (I am not bashing the south - I really liked it there but love it here)
I will blame who is at fault. I consider the government at fault because as with most things the unintended consequences of government getting involved is higher prices - in the case of a college education - way higher prices. The free market is not at work here, therefore prices have gotten out of control. I have to make certain that I have enough money through my retirement to not rely on anyone else.
Please understand that I want to do my part, but only my part except to provide opportunities for those who cannot. But with my definition of opportunity…
You don’t want to talk about college. This is just an anti-government screed. Got it.
"So, here I am frustrated because children of poor families are going to Ivy League (and the like) schools for nearly free. This is an unfair advantage of being poor and I am hereby complaining. "
Your daughter isn’t Ivy-and-the-like material, even if you were poor.
There are NO “unfair advantages of being poor.” It’s rather like complaining that you have to pay for your own ketchup when people in prison get their ketchup for free. Yeah, well, trade places with them if that’s so cushy.
No one forced you to live in the very bestest and most expensive suburb. No one stopped you from putting away money from the time of your daughter’s birth so you could happily afford the full cost of an elite school.
You HAVE the money - you just don’t want to spend it. (Which of course is your right)
How is that being “penalized” when it’s YOUR CHOICE not to spend the whole nut?
Two kids at full pay here, earned with a heck of a lot of sweat and sacrifice on H’s and my part - including choosing not to live up to our means. Would never occur to me to be “jealous” of their classmates who have less and who consequently got financial aid.
I like that ketchup analogy.
Clearly, the OP doesn’t give two hoots about what anyone is saying here. He and his kid made choices. He made the choice not to,save, to live in a pricey place, etc…and to complain about it.
His daughter made the choice to be overloaded with ECs. For the record…unless one of those ECs is Olympic athlete or the like, being overloaded with them is not going to tip the scales in her favor for college admissions if she isn’t otherwise a qualified applicant.
And the OP has said more than once…he CAN pay, he doesn’t WANT to pay.
But if I were a betting woman, I bet he would change his tune if his daughter said she was majoring in engineering or finance.
To be honest, I can’t see where this thread is going. It’s helping no one…including the OP who didn’t come here to hear other’s opinions.
It is like, " I have been a good boy, did my chores, ate my vegetables. Why do I have take a bus to school when my friends drive BMW to school."
Your daughter is going to get a good college education. Just because you worked hard and “did everything right” in your eyes, doesn’t mean you and your family deserve all the luxuries in life. To me that’s entitlement. How many people work hard and go without, but they do not own a house, two cars, and good public education?
It is fine to vent here, but I think it is also a teaching moment for your kid, tell her to be happy and grateful for what she has.
or if his special snowflake were ivy material.
It’s interesting how you resent the (mere handful of) poor students who get to go to Ivies for free. Do you resent trust-fund kids who get to go to Ivies without any meaningful impact to their family finances, or do you just resent the poors?
Because going through life worrying about what other people have / do is just a poor way of going through life. Guess what. There will be always be someone who is smarter, richer, better looking, better liked, more popular than you. There will always be someone who “wins the lottery” than you don’t. You can spend your time resenting them, or you can let it roll off your shoulders and just focus on being the best you that you can be - or as the kids say, “you do you.”
It is completely irrelevant to my life that there are kids at my kids’ schools who are getting full rides, just like it’s irrelevant to my life that there are people my age who own private jets and multiple homes.
I find your entitlement to be far more disdainful than any of the people you rant against. Their wanting assistance is truly based on need, and yours appears based on gluttony. I wonder if you would have the same opinions of these “addicted” universities if they threw a full ride your way. I’m curious , do you really believe these things that you are posting or do you continue to repeat the same things over and over or do you repeat them to keep your post active ? It sure seems that way when you say things like " It’s getting interesting again."
Just stumbled into this thread, but based on the # of posts in just a few days (am not going to read them), am guessing you’ve gotten your hat handed to you multiple times for your tone and your attitude… Huge difference between willingness to pay and ability to pay. You have to decide. But if you are so convinced your brilliant, genius, special, save-the world daughter will someday be the CEO of a large company, take out loans with an IOU from her to repay you.