And to see whether the course load was padded with easy A’s…
Recruiters know the difference between the traditional Micro/Macro sequence in econ departments (which require actual problem-solving) and “Introduction to concepts in economics, pricing and buyer behavior” in a marketing department which is going to spend an entire semester teaching “what is a demand curve” without ever needing math!
Employers can request proof of graduation (there is a national clearinghouse so it can be accessed online, in the old days you had to request from the Registrar and it took a few days) which verifies attendance and graduation, degree earned, sometimes Latin honors but sometimes not. In most cases it does not offer a transcript. And since many seniors get fulltime job offers in early Fall, you can’t get degree verification (because there hasn’t been a degree awarded) but you can get a transcript…
Do all employers verify graduation? Or is it really just with recent college grads? Every now and then you hear a story of some semi well known figure that claims to have gone to Harvard (for some reason it’s always Harvard) when they never went to college at all. That always suggest that some employers aren’t all that thorough in vetting of employees.
They certainly do for newly graduated students. For college seniors, employers can make their hiring contingent on verification of their degrees. If an employer asks for transcript, it’s most likely done prior to hiring (and the transcript may be part of that hiring decision).
I got my current job six years ago and had been with my previous employer for almost 30 years. My current employer asked for proof of my college degree through the national clearinghouse.
Not every company is as thorough as they should be… and those that don’t check can find themselves in a very embarrassing and public situation… Not 100%, but the number of companies verifying is inching upwards. Honestly, it is so easy I’m not sure why it isn’t SOP.
Currently at an elite school, and I know many History/Comparative Literature majors/grads. Most of them – if they come from unconnected families – are bitter that their elite degrees didn’t pay off after graduation. They are stuck at low-paying jobs, with no way into the upper-middle class except for law school. Lots of anger, regret, and resentment in that crowd.
Your friends should take that anger, regret and resentment and channel it into their job search.
The “War for Talent” is back and it’s real- fantastic opportunities for kids with a liberal arts education, strong communication skills, and a demonstrated work ethic.
There are plenty of ways into the upper-middle class if that’s what you care about. But hanging out on Instagram with your similarly under-employed friends is not a good career launching strategy.
Oh trust me. They’ve been job searching for a while. The vast majority of entry-level professional jobs these days require some modicum of technical ability/knowledge – hence why they’ve been searching for so long.
Have they applied to @blossom 's company?
Another reason why it may be harder for new entrants to start career tracks now compared to a generation ago: the labor share of the economy is declining (especially since 2000).
Now combine that with the increased cost of education that is expected to be borne by the new entrant before being hired to an entry-level job.
Have those students contacted alums? I know one student who contacted and spoke to over 50 alums via Linked In to gather information and find a very lucrative internship that will likely lead to a job.
I graduated in the 90’s from a state school, and several of my social sciences friends got great jobs on Wall Street. I had one friend whose major was partying as far as I could tell and he made so much money as a trader that he retired in his early 40’s. That was a different era for Wall Street and for education.
Back then, a recent grad (almost always male) could get a minimum wage job on the Street, and if he was smart enough and his bosses liked hanging out with him, he could be a millionaire by the time he was 30 years old. Technology has made a lot of the entry level jobs like Runners obsolete, and the job has gotten much more sophisticated, requiring math and finance degrees even for entry level positions. Plus, it is not nearly as much of an old boys network. Going to clubs with your boss does not provide the same step up in finance that it did 20+ years ago.
In terms of education, the number of Science and Engineering degrees given in the US is up 50% from where it was in 2000. I can’t find good data on Finance degrees, but I assume they are up too. There are a lot more graduates with technical degrees competing for those entry level jobs, and their skills will carry the day in an interview compared to someone with a classics degree, even from a “better” school.
One of my problems with colleges today is the tendency, especially for bigger schools, to make social sciences among the easiest programs in the school. The humanities should be the hardest degrees at the school, not the easiest. If you want to have a career as a writer or in Poli Sci or History, you need to be very, very good. I know plenty of mediocre accountants and computer programmers with just a BS or BA making good money and living very comfortable lives. That is less often the case with humanities’ majors that do not go on to get an advanced degree.
bloomington019 - thanks for sharing the experiences of some of your friends and the source of your perspectives.
There is certainly something to be gained from seeing the struggles others have faced. I do think it’s important to be cautious about making blanket statements to the effect of “this is how it is everywere, for everyone in this category” - extrapolated from stories of a few folks. There may certainly be value to be gained from that information - but it can also be an incomplete picture, leading others to feal a sense of discouragement when it may not be entirely warranted.
Exactly. Just go on WSO or LinkedIn and the bias for CS/Finance/Math/Econ/Engineering majors for jobs that were previously open to any major (i.e. MBB, BB IB) is extremely obvious. Employers now want new hires to hit the ground running ASAP. Training programs for recent hires have been greatly curtailed.
It’s definitely a warranted sense of discouragement. CTDad’s comment on the rigor of humanities majors is very true – you cannot get by being an average or above average (or even a very good) Poli Sci/English/History major these days if you’d like to provide for yourself. You must be exceptional.
I do think this is true and could be a reason that the critical thinking skills of humanities majors aren’t as valued as they used to be. It used be employers wanted people who could learn so they could train them. Perhaps nowadays they are more interested in graduates they perceive as being work ready.
Here are some typical responses from the young, new grads I am volunteering to help with their “launch plan”.
Blossom finds a fantastic opportunity for a new grad with strong writing skills. The company is a well known health insurance company. New Grad, “I don’t really see myself in the insurance industry long term”. Blossom find a fantastic opportunity at a well regarded foundation devoted to public health as an assistant program manager-- “I really can’t see myself relocating to… (fill in the blanks- Battle Creek, Atlanta, St. Paul, Milwaukee, doesn’t matter). Blossom finds a fantastic opportunity for an archival assistant at a Historical Society (note- you cannot work from home when you are cataloguing and restoring 200 year old documents and 300 year old books)-- “This would be the perfect job for me if they’d allow remote work- who wants to live in Omaha?” Blossom finds a solid and VERY well paying job at a consumer products company in their blue chip sales training program. “I see myself as more of the managerial type than the sales type” (note- this company promotes to manager in 3 years if you do well in the rotational sales program”.
I give up. There are so many interesting jobs requiring the skills that humanities majors have- research, writing, communicating, synthesizing, persuading. When a friend or neighbor asks me to help their kid I can usually diagnose the problem after one meeting. Either the kid thinks he’s going to become CEO after 6 months, or the kid thinks that the perfect job is going to emerge which pays a ton of money to sit in her apartment and become an Influencer. And when I DO find a role which does use those social media skills (hospitals are hiring social media talent, energy companies are hiring social media talent, airlines are hiring social media talent) there is inevitably something wrong with the company- not sexy, not with it, you can’t bring your dog to the office…
Yes, I am a grumpy boomer. I graduated into a recession-- my classmates and I took whatever “career seeming” jobs we could find. Entry level- retail management, PR, ad agency junior account exec, commercial banking management training program, hotel management training. These jobs rotate and promote quickly.
Companies still spend tens of millions of dollars on training, even if their “formal training program” has been revamped.
What can we teach? How to do a discounted cash flow analysis for a poli sci major interested in finance. What can’t we teach? a positive attitude, work ethic, ambition.
Nailed it. My first “job” after college was working as a temp in a bank vault. The pay was crap, the job was boring but it paid the bills until I found something else. Eventually I got in the door with a great company and started a career that was interesting, challenged me and paid very well. Today, it seems like some college grads think success will be automatic, that they won’t have to pay their dues. That just isn’t true for most. Even with a STEM degree only a handful of grads are going to end up at MBB/BB/IB/FAANG as was referenced above. Newsflash - not everyone is going to end up a in a job paying $100k immediately upon graduation, but that doesn’t mean you won’t have a good career or be able to support yourself as was suggested earlier.