I posted this upthread but I’ll repeat it: we did compare total cost of ownership (TCO) for our Bolt to the cost of a new “cheap car” when we bought it. We were replacing a 20-year old Honda Civic and the two options we looked at were the Bolt and a new Honda Fit. We assumed 180K miles at 20K/yr and used $2.20/gallon for gas costs and our then-current KwH costs for electric costs. We used our maintenance records for the Civic to estimate the maintenance costs for the Fit, and adjusting maintenance costs for the Bolt to account for lower costs due to it being an EV.
The Bolt TCO came out lower. However, the breakeven point was late in the estimated life of the car. I think it was seven or eight years in. The Fit had a lower up front cost, but over time the maintenance and gas costs add up. We did not include a battery replacement cost for the Bolt. Based on our prior experience with hybrid ownership, nine years is a reasonable amount of time to expect out of the batteries.
You could certainly save some money by buying used. We run our cars to the ground and I would never consider replacing a perfectly serviceable existing car with a new car (husband had to work to talk me out of the 20-year-old Civic, I loved that car!), but based on our TCO estimate I don’t think you could do that and expect to break even.
The other factor with electric fires is, does the fire department have the retardant for that particular fire and do they have enough of it to put it out? We had a commercial fire in the state and lots more burned due to unavailability of retardant than firemen.
Some third party (non-energy related/non govt related) consulting firm needs to run the numbers and see if the grid can support an increase of up to 50% on it. And they need to run costs and grid reliability for each area. I certainly wouldn’t buy a car that I can’t charge due to rolling blackouts, if that happened frequently in my area. And I certainly don’t want to pay 4x the cost for electricity so everyone can have an EV. Just put out the numbers then people can decide for themselves what’s best for them.
Let me guess, the same people who designed the grids that are now having brown outs and black outs are going to be the ones doing the calculations and redesign. Same agency? It’s likely. Anyone know who plans the grids for EV’s?
It is really an extra fee if car stays more than 5 minutes after it is full and there is high demand at the SuperCharger: Supercharger Fees | Tesla Support
Regardless of what the results are, they won’t change anyone’s mind, since people will only trust sources that agree with them, because they will assume that a contrary result is due to pre-existing bias toward that result (which may or may not be the case).
The people who plan the grids for EVs are the same people who plan the grids for everything else. It varies by where you live but in many areas it’s an entity called an RTO. Upthread I linked to ISO New England’s web page. They are the entity that does it in New England. Some other regional entities include PJM, NYISO, MISO and CAISO. They are already deep into planning for an increase in electric vehicles, heating electrification (which will have much more impact than EVs in the northeast) and a transition to more renewable energy being on the system. This is my area of professional expertise. EVs are not a problem for the grid.
The misinformation on this thread from people who don’t know what they are talking about and have no experience owning, let alone just driving, an EV is astounding.
My intention is to continue driving either gasoline powered vehicles or hybrids. Our current transportation system is already established for those vehicles and I’m comfortable with that. I am preparing for the day when I might be forced to choose an electric vehicle, either because it is mandated or it is mandated that gasoline powered vehicles are not allowed to be sold. I upped the size of my breaker box to accommodate a high voltage outlet in my garage. I may never use it but perhaps the next owner will.
My son will be a freshman at Texas A&M this fall and needs a car. Once I joined the parent FB groups (there are several) I began to see multiple posts and pictures about tire theft/catalytic converter theft happening on and off campus. Thieves would apparently hit an entire garage overnight. Gated or not, didn’t matter. Parents and a local Bryan College Station reporter said it was often people coming from Houston, a hot spot for catalytic converter theft. After having just visited a friend who had a Mustang Mach E, I thought that it would be the perfect fit for him, and I could still claim the $7500 federal tax credit. He has a reserved spot at his apartment’s garage with an electrical outlet. He can go back and forth to my house and not have to pay for gas. Just waiting on the car (put in an order in January, scheduled for production end of August). The car is so popular they stopped taking orders for the 2022s a few weeks later because they couldn’t fulfill them all. On the Mach E forums multiple people with orders still don’t have scheduled production dates and the thought is that they will become 2023s. Who knows - mine may as well.
My daughter EV has worked well in her city. At her apartment, they had electric charging stations but she found that people would park their non EV in the EV spot. Drove her nuts and her apartment manager would do nothing about it.
Now she has to charge at a public charger (which she only has to do once a week or so with normal commuting) and this charger is cheap for the first hour but much more expensive after the 1st hour. The public charger is around the block from her townhouse.
I would like to see a couple of sources that don’t have a vested interest explore future options. I don’t think it’s a matter of changing anyone’s mind so much as it’s a matter of getting facts in a manner that isn’t filtered through a lens. Some consulting firms specialize in showing various options. That can be really helpful to look at possible outcomes. A report from Sunoco or a Federal agency that makes $$ on the outcomes and opinions, not so much.
I’ve read tons of well written reports like this and they can be really helpful. They often showcase possible technology upgrades/changes, possible financial changes and impacts and others things which are specific to the industry. Forester and other firms have made lots of money writing such reports. They are probably already out there just expensive to buy.
Of course, someone has to pay them to do the work – and would you trust that whoever is paying them is not paying them to find a specific result (or that the result is only announced and published if it matches the payer’s ideologically/politically-based desired result)?
I trust Forrester. They are paid by the consumer so they don’t have a reason to bias. They are not idealogical/political. And that’s why the info is so good, IMO.
And they get a lot for a report. Many are familiar with the company and others like it.
As I thought, Forrester has done research on EV’s. I don’t have access to that specific database but this is a recent synopsis. As you can see, no bias. Just data.
