That’s a pretty cool description of events. Thank you for sharing!
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Thank you for this detailed report. What was the total mileage you traveled and how long did it take at the somewhat reduced speeds?
Total distance traveled was 215 miles from home to the Supercharger. I left home with 100% charge, ~308 miles per the computer. Temp was mid-40;s at both ends, but down to 33 degree in the mountains (~4,500’). Batteries aren’t as efficient <40 as they are at 75 degrees. Speed limit is (ahem) 70 mph once on the West Side Highway (I5) in the Valley.
I didn’t really throttle back much (only the last 20 minutes or so), as I had set the computer to plan to arrive with 10% charge remaining, so I knew I had some cushion if I pushed it towards zero. That said, there were plenty of superchargers along the way where I could have stopped, but just thought I’d run a test.
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For many drivers, increased use of cabin heat is the biggest extra consumption in cold weather. Heat is not free in an EV as it is in an ICEV that makes a lot of waste heat (hence the Ice 's higher energy consumption).
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That is correct. Elon recommends cranking up the seat heaters and lowering the cabin temp as teh Tesla seat heaters are a tad more efficient than the cabin resistant heat.
That said, not sure of your point. IMO, the purpose of transportation is to get one from Point A to Point B, comfortably. Are you suggesting that EV folks set their cabin temp <60 in the winter?
Based on some OBD-II scanning and other observations:
- Heating the driver’s seat (~100W) consumes much less energy than heat pump heating (~500W). However, heating all of the seats may approach the energy cost of heat pump heating.
- Heat pump heating consumes much less energy than resistance heating (kilowatts).
Perhaps I have a higher tolerance for temperature variation than most people, but 60F for heating in the car or house is usually fine for me, because I am typically dressed for winter weather when heating may be useful. During the summer, I do not use the AC that much in the car and do not have AC in the house, because I am typically dressed for summer weather during that season. For most of my car driving, I just have some airflow on without heat or AC on.
In the winter, heated seats in the car are nice when I want heat, because they heat up faster than cabin heat (including in ICEVs).
I’d be OK using heated seats versus cabin heating, but I would really want a heated steering wheel along with it. Because my hands are usually the part of me that’s most cold in the winter when I’m driving.
I totally LOVE my Bolt’s heated steering wheel!
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Dealers have a 103-day supply of EVs compared to 56 days for all cars. It takes them on average 65 days to sell an EV, about twice as long as for gas-powered cars. EV sales are slowing though manufacturers have slashed prices and increased discounts. Consumers paid on average $50,683 for an EV in September, compared to $65,000 a year ago.
https://www.axios.com/2023/11/28/car-dealers-electric-evs-biden
Nearly 4,000 U.S. car dealers are asking President Biden to tap the brakes on proposed emissions regulations designed to ensure that two-thirds of new passenger cars are all-electric by 2032.
- Consumers just aren’t interested, they say, and electric vehicles (EVs) are stacking up on their lots.
Why it matters: Neighborhood car dealers claim to be the best barometer of consumer sentiment — and a group calling themselves “EV Voice of the Consumer” is sounding the alarm about a widening mismatch between EV supply and customer demand.
Driving the news: A total of 3,882 franchised car dealers from 50 states sent a letter to Biden Tuesday urging the administration to slow down its EV mandates.
- “Last year, there was a lot of hope and hype about EVs,” they wrote, describing demand from early adopters.
- “But that enthusiasm has stalled. Today, the supply of unsold BEVs (battery electric vehicles) is surging, as they are not selling nearly as fast as they are arriving at our dealerships — even with deep price cuts, manufacturer incentives, and generous government incentives.”
- “With each passing day, it becomes more apparent that this attempted electric vehicle mandate is unrealistic based on current and forecasted customer demand. Already, electric vehicles are stacking up on our lots which is our best indicator of customer demand in the marketplace.”
Until somebody solves the lack of infrastructure and the very real concern about range, it’ll not get better.
There is one place in my rural burg to charge an EV: the local Walmart, which has a half-dozen spaces, all always full. Not a single gas station offers it. We are 90 minutes outside NYC, so while we are sparsely populated (168k county residenets), we are in an area that is heavily visited and on the major highway paths out of the city. To have six charging spaces in the entire county is pathetic.
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Agree…and one reason why we didn’t pursue the EV choice when getting my new car now. We will be patient and wait.
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Love our Tesla’s, but we live in CA where Superchargers are plentiful and more importantly, we can charge at home. As I posted way upthread, I do not recommend them for anyone who cannot charge at home (or easily at work), and that’s what I have advised my kids who live in urban areas.
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This is exactly my thinking also.
I happened to park next to a non-Tesla EV recently. My first thought was that the car looked pretty good. My second thought was to wonder whether they have trouble finding superchargers when they go on long trips.
At one point I was thinking that my wife and I could have one EV that was “range limited” as long as it could get her to work and back (and we could recharge overnight at home). Then it occurred to me that sometimes she goes off to visit her family (my in-laws). At these times, I sometimes go off in the opposite direction. We need two cars both of which can go on long trips at the same time.
I do not think that we can count on the non-Tesla charging networks to be available wherever we want to drive.
We by the way have a public charging point that is perhaps 2 miles from my house. It is a level 2 charger right next to a couple of shops where people might visit for 15 minutes, and near a restaurant (which I assume people might visit for an hour). In several years I have seen it used once. The issue is that it is surrounded by shops and by homes that have garages. If you are going to plug in your car overnight at home, then what is the point to also plug in for 15 minutes while you shop? You don’t get enough charge to bother. However, there is also a level 2 charger at the company where I used to work. It is relatively common to see cars plugged in there. They limit any one car to 4 hours, but you can get a reasonable amount of charge in 4 hours at a level 2 charger (more than enough to cover your commute in both directions).
Some thought is needed in terms of where these chargers are located. Tesla seems to have put in that thought. Super chargers on the highway make sense. Level 2 chargers at homes, businesses, and hotels make sense. But we need to be able to rely on them.
Maintenance for an older EV might be another issue.
Which is us also. We do already have our second hybrid (and when it is gone it will probably be replaced by another hybrid, or a plug in hybrid depending upon cost and availability).
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I thought of this thread the other day. The Easy German team did a video where the team raced from Berlin to Frankfurt (550km). One group took the train, the other a Tesla. Who would win? The car started out ahead, but then had to stop to charge. I think he had to stop twice, so the train won by a couple of hours. On a side note - they also picked up a hitchhiker along the way!!!
And older S wound up not buying a hybrid. He was tired on waiting for them to get exactly what he wanted. He got a 2024 RAV4 and picked it up last Friday. So far he is super happy. We call him Mr. Fancy Pants, because he has the fancy features like remote start and heated steering wheel that we don’t have. I was happy when my new car (11 years ago) had both power locks and doors!
Could be until someone solves the “very real concern about range” or could be until Americans more accurately assess their driving patterns and needs. Most folks in areas without a lot of chargers also have more than one car in their household. Poof! goes the need to worry about range for longer trips. Although I totally agree that charging at home is key.
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Honestly as long as you’re not driving in West Virginia it’s fine. We’ve taken our Bolt up and down the east coast with no problem. West Virginia is a big black hole for chargers, though.
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Scheduled trains between Berlin and Frankfurt take about 4-4.5 hours, so a 550km trip would be an average of 122-137 km/h (76-85 mph). If there are any traffic jams on any of the roads, it would be hard to see any road car beating the train. Without traffic jams or speed limits, driving at 85mph would consume fuel or electricity at prodigious rate (i.e. would be expensive).
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This is also a factor. And one that more chargers or better range may not fix very easily.
From the WSJ piece:
“A new study from the University of California, Berkeley’s Energy Institute at Haas finds a “strong and enduring correlation between political ideology and U.S. EV adoption.” About half of EVs registered as of last year were to “the 10% most Democratic counties, and about one-third to the top 5%,” the study notes. This suggests “it may be harder than previously believed to reach high levels of U.S. EV adoption.””
Goes to show that trains are better than cars.
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They also had to take public transportation from their office to the train station (while the car was parked out front) and also to the hotel. The light rail was late with technical difficulties, and so was the train (as they often complain on air)
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