<p>I never personally dealt with career services. The art department had their own system of career services. My professors in junior and senior year were a huge help with finding internships and a job. My senior year graphic design teacher knew through her connections about jobs that were open, and put in a good word for me. It all worked out, and I'm still at that job now.</p>
<p>Thank you for all the positive remarks about WP. I welcome hearing the other side of the story that goes beyond the statistics. This university has such an impressive faculty that I find it a shame that it is so difficult to attract a more academically diverse applicant pool. </p>
<p>I can also understand why older, more mature students who can look beyond the "campus" college atmosphere and focus on course work would find a rewarding educational experience there. </p>
<p>Northeastmom, you bring up good points since there must be quite a few NJ students who want to stay in NJ and, obviously not everyone can be Princeton bound. Given the budget restrictions mentioned by other posters, does anyone have any ideas how the state university system in New Jersey should respond to what seems to be a great need to fill in the gaps that Rutgers-NB doesn't? WP doesn't fill the gap now but could it in the future?</p>
<p>Some other very solid NJ state schools not discussed here are Stockton and Rowan. Both offer authentic residential experiences, with solid academics and students. I think Montclair is nearer to getting there with the huge increase in dorm space, making it more of a residential college. Among private colleges, of course, there are Drew and Stevens (the latter for engineers.) TCNJ is considered at or above Rutgers' level right now (many top kids from our high school go to one or the other of those every year.)</p>
<p>We visited Rowan. I liked it. Many students feel that Rowan, and Stockton have little name recognition. IMO, there just seems to be a big gap between TCNJ and Rowan/Stockton/Montclair/WP and even Ramapo.</p>
<p>from princeton review website: average SATs:</p>
<p>TCNJ 1261
Ramapo 1179
Stockton 1120
Rowan 1106</p>
<p>There's a gap, but it's not a huge one. I think that those schools, for a student for whom TCNJ is a reach, are decent matches. I can't argue with name recognition OOS, but they'd be known in-state.</p>
<p>Garland those #s are great, but kids with mid 1300 sat scores and 3.5+ gpas are being rejected from TCNJ. This is why I say that there is a gap. It depends on the hs. I have heard that they are trying to stick to the top 10% from each hs for admissions, although I do not know if this is a fact. I can tell you that the top 10% of students in my son's hs, are applying to schools other than TCNJ. At least the top 5%, if not more were accepted to an Ivy. I can also tell you that several students in the honor society were rejected or WL at TCNJ. Those students can now leave the state, go to Rutgers, which many find too big, or head for WP, Ramapo, Stockton, etc. (sat ave.1106-1179).</p>
<p>I wonder if some kind of Tufts syndrome is going on. We have students at our hs that are on the whole, not at the level of the ones you are talking about, but they get into TCNJ in pretty big numbers. Maybe they're on the lookout for students who are using them as a safety. (not fair, I know.)</p>
<p>Six years ago, my D was turned down by Rutgers Honors--4.0 UW average, 5/400, 1470 SAT. Go figure.</p>
<p>Rowan and Stockton are both in the southern portion of New Jersey and are a residential campus with less commuters. For what I have observed over the past 26 years, Rutgers and the other Public colleges in NJ are not a first choice school for the students. They are a first choice school of the parents concerned with finances primarily and secondary having the children going to school close to home.</p>
<p>NJ is an expensive state to live in and often the only solution to the $$$ is to have the child go to the local public college. Many children go to the local Community College for one or two years and then transfer to Rutgers (Newark or Canden) campus.</p>
<p>Rutgers In New Brunswick is a jumble of schools and campus' surrounding and within NB NB does not have a true town center, rather it has a train station that serves the central campus and the many commuters. Not surprisingly the College book store is located right at the train station.</p>
<p>The town/gown atmosphere in NB is not encouraging. NB is an old town with poor housing stock, many immigrants, too much crime and the college housing is not sufficient so many students and all graduate students live off campus. </p>
<p>My W got her Master's at Rutgers (evening classes) and my nephew got his engineering degree from Rutgers. Academically, it is an excellent school. Socially it is a jumble of students from different generations, different goals with many graduate programs imposing on the undergraduate programs. </p>
<p>The overall impression that exists and has existed for years is (to the children), if you don't have to go to Rutgers don't. TCNJ, in the past 10+ years, has become an attractive alternative to Rutgers to the students whose families are concerned about $$$ and being close to home. The location of Rider University and TCNJ are in different towns, but each campus ends where the other begins. Once TCNJ changed it name from Trenton State College, it's popularity increased.</p>
<p>TCNJ is located in Ewing just north of Trenton and both it and Rider are in relatively safe communities, slightly off the beaten track.</p>
<p>NJ is lacking in private colleges; mention Drew and Stevens and all the rest are mostly Catholic colleges (Seton Hall is the best known), and in most cases these colleges are located in urban areas with a small cramped campus setting.</p>
<p>Surrounded as NJ is by the cities of Philadelphia and NYC and the multitude of private colleges in PA and NY, the attraction to attend OOS is overwhelming. Drew's literature's emphasis it's location just a train ride from NYC/UN/Wall Street. Why would a NJ child need to go to Drew to be near NYC. Stevens is located in Hoboken, another older town just across from NYC.</p>
<p>BTW - Princeton has never had a majority of New Jersey residents attending. it has always sought a national student body. While students locally (Princeton/WW-Plainsboro/Hopewell and Montgomery) have excellent schools, Princeton has primarily targeted the students from the private schools (Hun/Lawrenceville/etc) in NJ for many of their recruits. This has changed a bit in the last few years.</p>
<p>Students in NJ have so many excellent schools within two hundred miles from the center of this state, it should be no surprise that the U of Delaware (8 miles from our southern border) and Penn State's State College campus (140 miles or so from our western border) and even the U of Maryland (less than 100 miles from NJ), all have significant numbers of NJ students. </p>
<p>Academically Rutgers is the equal of al three schools, but especially in the case of Penn State and Delaware, each offers a campus setting that is complete and a student setting that emphasis' the undergraduate experience much more so than Rutgers.</p>
<p>meganvirg, That was a very nice description of some of the campuses. I will add that in our hs, most kids accepted to Penn State did not get accepted to the main campus this year.</p>
<p>Also there is another state school that has not been discussed. That is NJIT. It also has a low 4 year graduation rate of 17%. We never visited, but I understand that it is in an urban setting. I don't think it is far from Seton Hall, but I am not sure about that.</p>
<p>I don't think that Tuft's Syndrome is going on at TCNJ. I do know that very few from our hs get in, even those with very good stats. They are not accepting students with lower stats from our hs either (ie: 1200-1250, 3.3).</p>
<p>More NJ applicants need to take a look at Richard Stockton College. RSC has a rigorous core cirriculum (general education) and solid offerings in the natural sciences, particularly Biology.</p>
<p>Agreed--A good friend of my D's graduated there with a degree in environmental science and is now doing high level grad work in that.</p>
<p>Northeastmom: </p>
<p>New Jersey Institute of Te4chnology (NJIT) is located on MLK Jr. Blvd in Newark (formerly High St). It is directly across the street from Rutgers Newark campus and down the block from Essex Community College.</p>
<p>NJIT's campus is marred be the fact that facing on MLK Jr Blvd and directly across from Rutgers is Central High School. NJIT's buildings are behind and along side of Central's large, old and rather rowdy High School.</p>
<p>Central High School students make the area not so pleasant and it has hurt the willingness of students to attend. It is a good academic school, but with downtown five blocks away, the local Newark subway system one block away the entire area is urban and the kind of place that after 6 PM, you would want your D to be escorted and your S to be with at least three friends.</p>
<p>Since Essex and Rutgers are essentiallly commuter schools, Essex having a vigorous evening program and NJIT many commuters, the scene around NJIT in the daytime is lively, but in the late afternoon the commuters leave, the high school kids hang around and the campus gets rather empty. NJIT has many Frat houses nearby and many graduate students do live in the row houses nearby. The drop out rate is large because campus housing is only guaranteed to freshman, after that it is commuter or live locally.</p>
<p>Not surprisingly many leave. My D's friend just completed her first year at NJIT (on scholarship), will be talking to her in the coming weeks and will post if information changes any of the above.</p>
<p>Seton Hall is located in South Orange, very close to the Irvington border. Irvington is a town that currently has no redeeming qualities with indicted mayors, police problems, state police are aiding in policing the town and this spills over into South Orange. Seton Hall has many commuters and is a cramped campus in a very urban setting.</p>
<p>Thanks. I knew that they were all in urban settings, and not in particularly pleasant areas. I did know that Rutgers-Newark has many commuters, but I did not realize that NJIT has the same problem.</p>
<p>Another post a few months ago discussed South Orange. Take my word for it, South Orange may share a border with the depressed city of Irvington (and the western edge of Newark, for that matter), but South Orange is a world away from its distressed neighbors. In fact, for better or worse, several South Orange residential streets that abut Newark are "sealed" by high iron gates. The transformation as you travel westward along South Orange Avenue from distress to wealth is quite stark. South Orange is a popular (and $$$) village with a quaint dowtown. It really is not a college town, but Seton Hall University students don't appear to have any overwhelming concerns about personal safety in the environs of South Orange.</p>
<p>A friend's S is a rising senior and is currently making the rounds of colleges with an eye to find match and safety schools. He would like to study in the tri-state area and is seriously considering NJ for personal reasons. Given his academic interests, (I don't know and don't want to ask his SAT score range) would any of you be able to give some good feedback about which schools have particularly strong or interesting history departments?</p>
<p>Rutgers has an outstanding history department and has had one for decades. The current President, Richard McCormick is the son of a renown, and revered, former Rutgers history professor (with the same name), and was himself a member of the history department.</p>
<p>Thank you, tsdad. I don't know if anyone else is interested, but I found the following web page that lists the current Rutgers New Brunswick history faculty, organized by their areas of specialty. </p>
<p>I am a graduate of RU history department from a long, long time ago. Actually, Rutgers was still all male, which give you some idea how long ago it was. I loved it. I went to grad school in history at Chapel Hill and was able to hold my own with students from all across the country.</p>
<p>"New Jersey college presidents and leaders use such words as "painful", "monstrous", and "unprecedented" to describe the state's proposed funding cuts to higher education." The approved budget cuts will have a significant negative impact on New Jersey colleges that include hiring freezes, elimination of graduate-assistant positions, and building renovation, as well as class size and tuition increases. These budget cuts coincide with record levels of applicants. The increase in numbers of applicants is not expected to peak until 2009. So, does this mean that now even more of N.J. students will look out of state for higher ed?</p>
<p>Considering the facts that New Jersey's public high schools are among the best in the country, and the population of the state is fairly well educated, and NJ's cost of living is extremely high, and our taxes are enormous, NJ State Colleges should be fantastic.</p>
<p>But they NEVER have enough money. There is ALWAYS a budget crisis at the state university level. There's a serious brain drain; the best and second best high school kids in NJ do not attend the public colleges.</p>
<p>Compared with California, which has high schools that rank near the bottom in the country, our state colleges are a joke. How is it that California can provide excellent public universities that are reasonably priced for their students and NJ can't?</p>
<p>What is the answer to this problem?</p>