William Patterson University

<p>"the best and second best high school kids in NJ do not attend the public colleges."</p>

<p>Overall, I find this to be true when looking at my son's graduating class. There are a couple of kids that are admitted to TCNJ, and some of them do attend. Also, the way the STAR program is designed, when looking at our public high school, students most likely able to use such a program are not eligible, and the top 10% of graduates that could use it do not b/c they go oos. I wish NJ would look at Florida's Bright Futures Scholarship Program. All I know is that we are being taxed to death, and our S is going oos. I may have encouraged our S to take advantage of a program like Florida's Bright Futures Scholarship program, if it were available to us.</p>

<p>Also, I had heard from a current senior, that Montclair's classes have been growing in size. She told me that many of the smaller classes are now large. She also told me that they built a gorgeous auditorium, which she feels was wasteful b/c students are not getting enough out of it. She said that it does benifit local residents who attend various events there, and they get more out of it than most of the students.</p>

<p>Property taxes in NJ by and large support your school districts, not the colleges. I grew up in New Jersry and they had no state income tax at the time. The state colleges and Rutgers have never been adequately supported. Rutgers is a major research university, a member of the Association of American Universities. Much of what it has accomplished has been in spite of the state of New Jersey, not because of it.</p>

<p>"Compared with California, which has high schools that rank near the bottom in the country, our state colleges are a joke. How is it that California can provide excellent public universities that are reasonably priced for their students and NJ can't?"</p>

<p>Yep, and how about Va., NC too. They have excellent public colleges.</p>

<p>tsdad, you are right, and my property taxes could not support one more cause either. Can you imagine how our retirees feel?</p>

<p>Well, our son has completed two years at TCNJ and is transferring to Mason Gross at Rutgers to finish. He enjoyed the smaller environment at TCNJ and now is looking for a larger pond and more challenge in his major. The two schools are quite different but are still two very viable choices for NJ kids. </p>

<p>I'd love for our NJ publics to have all they need for our kids but they are doing a great job with what they have. I do imagine the tuition will go up (doesn't it everywhere?) and classes might grow. But our son wanted to be in NYC, was admitted to his first choice, and declined due to astronomical tuition we could not cover. He could have earned scholarships oos but the NJ publics allow him a reasonable education and still close geographically to where he needs and wants to be.</p>

<p>We ARE sad that we probably can't retire in NJ....Delaware is looking good.</p>

<p>Most kids at my d's HS that turned down RU did so because so many kids go home on weekends, better $ offers from OOS schools, large class sizes taught by TAs and/or because of the NB campus - or multiple campuses that is. Kids simply didn't want to be bussed from one site to another for classes. This situation has gotten worse through the years. Makes it more like a commuter school. Some top students (1500+ SATs, top 5% of class...) chose RU because they got free rides & RU is known nationwide. Due to budget constraints, NJ might not offer these merit scholarships anymore at RU and TCNJ. Instead, NJ expects the very top students to be satisfied with the STARS pgm where they can attend a CC for 2 yrs and then transfer to a state school. Not much of an incentive to stay within NJ. Compare this program with other states.</p>

<p>Having all main campus (NB) schools share the same admission requirements makes sense since the kids get shipped off to take the same classes at any of the NB area campuses. It makes sense that they should be equally qualified for the classes. </p>

<p>Schools like WP, Kean and Jersey City (forget what it's called now) also serve a purpose. They provide an education for all levels, including the C student (lower than avg SATs) coming out of HS and CCs. Not everyone is capable of attending the more selective schools... You will find some better qualified students mixed in at these schools, esp at the graduate level, but the majority of kids were not admitted to higher ranked schools. Some programs are stronger than others and attract kids to the pgm, like Music or Education. Future teachers may prefer to stay in state so they're certified to teach here.</p>

<p>" NJ expects the very top students to be satisfied with the STARS pgm where they can attend a CC for 2 yrs and then transfer to a state school. Not much of an incentive to stay within NJ. Compare this program with other states."</p>

<p>Jerzgrlmom, exactly right. I don't know one kid at my son's school who took advantage of this program. The top students are all going oos in my son's graduating class, except one student who is going to TCNJ (He made it in at the last minute). The students who would look at such a program are not eligible for it b/c of their lower ranking. They should open that program up to the 3.0 1500/2400 student. Florida does this, so why can't NJ do it?</p>

<p>I know some very bright students (3.3+/1800+on SAT) commuting at WP ( Montclair, and Ramapo) b/c they need money that they do not have in order to go anywhere else. Oh, and they do not qualify for STARS, so that was not an option for them either.</p>

<p>Just some thoughts on the many NJ schools already mentioned. I've attended and/or live a few miles from several of them.</p>

<p>Seton Hall has the best campus of the northern schools. South Orange is a lovely town and the surrounding neighborhoods are great. I personally don't like the school's random architecture, where buildings seemed to be plopped down with no regard for a cohesive theme, but the campus isn't run down. Irvington is a terrifying place, but there is separation from the campus and its urban neighbor. It's still a commuter school in many respects. A decent, but not great choice for middle class kids who are shut out from exclusively needs-based financial aid universities because $40grand is too steep.</p>

<p>Montclair State is at least building with a Spanish style architecture theme. Very little space left to grow and absolute nightmare parking issues. Only a 12 mile straight shot down Rt. 3 into Manhattan. Montclair beats South Orange for nightlife, too. A respected performing arts program, but not a dream school by any stretch of the imagination. Lots of cummunity outreach programs drawing in theater and other performing arts fans from surrounding neighborhoods. Several friends teach there as adjunts. Not real impressed with the student body quality.</p>

<p>NJIT has always suffered from lack of dorms. So many of the professors barely speak English that the engineering students pull their hair out. Don't take the graduation rates too seriously. Many of the students are new immigrants or kids from working class families & they generally are more likely to interrupt their education for family or personal issues. The school does a ton of minority/female recruiting programs. The campus has cool new buildings and has been taking over huge swaths of the slums surronding it. Of course, when these two cultures meet, it can be dangerous. Kids from Central High have assaulted both students & faculty. Even thrown desks out of windows that crashed through the faculty's parked cars. Professors severely injured from projectiles of all sorts. Most kids prefer Stevens, which has a cool urban campus in Hoboken with NYC skyline views. A more solid reputation, as well. Rutgers Newark, acoss the street from NJIT, is basically a huge concrete slab with a sprinkling of ugly post modern buildings. Lots of remedial programs. Decent for accounting I'm told. O.K for English. Largely a commuter school that transforms into a continuing ed campus in the evenings. Good MBA program, however. Very convenient commute from NYC. </p>

<p>Sadly, NJ doesn't offer many good choices. The brain drain will only get worse with the Corzine budget cuts.</p>

<p>Inside Higher Ed article gives overview and update on the impact of the final NJ budget cuts on the state's colleges and universities.</p>

<p><a href="http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2006/07/10/nj%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2006/07/10/nj&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>As a result of the budget crisis, New Jersery law makers have cut Princeton University right out of the budget because it has an endowment in excess of $1 billion. While the budget cut will have no real impact on Princeton with its $11 billilon endowment, the University finds the precedent of cutting educational institutions from the budget "disturbing." </p>

<p>"No other college in New Jersey even comes close to having a $1-billion endowment."</p>

<p><a href="http://chronicle.com/news/%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://chronicle.com/news/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Isn't this, in part, why there is a crisis in NJ higher education? No money.</p>

<p>In-state tuition increase, classes eliminated, and Rutgers' sports program cut back.</p>

<p><a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/23/education/23rutgers.html?_r=1&oref=slogin%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/23/education/23rutgers.html?_r=1&oref=slogin&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Looks like the pr fall-out has begun in the aftermath of sport program cuts at Rutgers.</p>

<p><a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=220563%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=220563&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Even though New Jersey is listed on the 14 state slideshow "where's hot and where's not" feature on the brain drain side, it is well worth noting that William Paterson University gets a special mention because demand to attend is strong. So is over all demand to attend N.J.'s public higher ed. schools - over 20,000 students applied for 10,000 slots and the public system is "bursting at the seams". So, no "alarm bells" ringing here.</p>

<p><a href="http://www.nytimes.com/pages/education/edlife/index.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.nytimes.com/pages/education/edlife/index.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>