<p>Trimesters are nothing to fear. Carleton’s year is structured in a similar fashion to Dartmouth, Northwestern, Chicago, Stanford, much of the UC system, etc. (though there are endless variations on this theme). </p>
<p>Carls need take only 3 courses at a time rather than the 4-5 typical in a semester system. Many choose to tack on an additional lab, music/art class or once weekly discussion group, often intentially offered only pass/fail - e.g. A Tour of Mathematics (conceptual lecture series), Coffee and News (in French, Spanish, etc.). When students are asked if they would want to change to a semester schedule, they have consistently voted to keep things as they are. Those Carls that head off to grad schools and convert to semesters are even more likely as a group to support their trimester experiences.</p>
<p>Diversity has become an integral part of Amherst’s identity and mission. It works actively, aggressively, and “affirmatively” to create a diversity of perspectives in each of its incoming classes.</p>
<p>Given that you qualify for Questbridge, however, I am going to assume that you are an underrepresented student who comes from a family of modest means. Accordingly, you should attend the institution that will cast the widest safety net for you, that will maximize your chances at social mobility and empower you with the most freedom to do whatever you want once you graduate–and that’s Yale.</p>
<p>You’ll be fine at Williams. Williams students tend to lean left but it’s less of an in-your-face liberalism and more of a middle of the road every one has an opinion outlook. There’s a reasonable amount of political activism on campus – especially environmental – but it’s not a defining characteristic.</p>
<p>Students tend to be physically active, though not necessarily team athletes. More in the sense of getting out there and doing something with your friends and entry-mates. There’s a pervasive emphasis on health and fitness (which I thought was a positive) and it helps to like to do something in the snow, even if it’s sledding.</p>
<p>Quirkiness is a slippery concept to pin down, but my son had the same concern: What if they don’t get my jokes? As it turned out there was no shortage of shared humor. From Day One he made wonderful friends who I believe will be with him through the rest of his life. The entry residential system and the Junior Assistants make integrating into campus life seamless and assures that you always have someone to go to dinner with.</p>
<p>It’s also easy to forge close relationships with professors. They really get to know the kids and keep coming through with recommendations and advice. </p>
<p>I agree that it would be difficult to turn down Yale. My son chose Williams ED and has no regrets. He just went to his 5 year reunion and I can tell you his classmates’ accomplishments and personal happiness quotients have been phenomenally good. Hard to compare opportunities between Yale and Williams, but for sure Williams keeps opening doors – to graduate and professional schools and in careers.</p>
<p>In choosing between the two sets – Williams/Amherst or Grinnell/Carleton – I would say that there’s a fair amount of regionalism at play. Williams/Amherst are very well known in the Northeast and mid-Atlantic, but less so in the midwest and other parts of the country. Yale is a global brand.</p>
<p>I don’t see a lot of difference in academics or opportunities between Williams and Amherst. Try to visit both and see which environment you prefer, small town or rural. From afar my son thought Amherst was his first choice, but once he set foot on Williams campus, his mind was made up. The profound natural beauty of the surrounding area meant a lot to him and provided a balance to the intense academic pressure.</p>
<p>1190: You say it’s nothing to fear and that, in graduate school, there is a general consensus that a trimester-curriculum is optimal, but my only concern is if the conversion from a tri-based environment to a semester regiment would be a difficult adjustment based on the intense difficulty level of grad-school?</p>
<p>kwu: Well put, though by “maximize your chances at social mobility,” what exactly are you referring to? Is that to say that the rigor of Yale allows for more time spent at social scenes?</p>
<p>momrath: Thanks for the vivid descriptions! My gut has been telling me to lean towards Williams for awhile and it’s very exciting to hear your and your son’s experiences as it seems like the picture of an ideal college experience. Living in a rural Minnesota town, I am quite adapted to an isolated, cold region myself!</p>
<p>I’m sure kwu will speak for him/herself, but I believe what s/he meant is that while W/A/G/C have strong regional and academe recognition, Yale is known by everyone, everywhere. </p>
<p>(Correction: It’s Junior Advisor, not Assistant. I thought that sounded odd.)</p>
<p>LeaderTomorrow - Trimester to semester and back again is no effort. Remember, most study abroad programs are done as semesters, trimester kids don’t even notice the change. And FYI, most grad students, in moments of complete, honest and full disclosure will tell you college courses often pose tougher academic challenges than grad level counterparts.</p>
<p>And kwu, am I the only one here who finds the idea that the OP, by virtue of coming from “a family of modest means” needs to attend Yale to “maximize … chances at social mobility” ??? You may not see this as patronizing, but, as someone who came from such a background, turned down Yale, and somehow still managed to ultimately find myself “empowered,” I do. Four years is a big chunk of one’s life to compromise in the name of some imaginary, ill conceived conceptual odds shift. The journey is just too important.</p>
<p>I would highly recommend Carleton to you. Grad schools, as well as med schools and law schools, think very highly of Carleton grads. The environment is wonderful: very bright students who are friendly and supportive, not cut-throat competitive. I was a bio major and then went on to med school at Northwestern. My Carleton pre-med friends were not at all cut-throat; we all worked together and tried to help each other. Many students “march to their own drummer”, but I didn’t find it to be overly liberal. I am fairly conservative (in religion and politics), and I fit in well and found many friends, both conservative and liberal, there. As far as diversity, Williams and Amherst are not twice as diverse, as someone said above. From the most recent Fiske: Carleton- 21% persons of color; Amherst- 29%; Williams- 30% (this is not including international students; all three schools have quite a few internationals too). Also, if you care about the U.S. News and World Report rankings, Carleton has been in the top 10 LAC’s for many years (the highest I recall was #3 several years back). It has a beautiful arboretum. Also, since there are two colleges in Northfield (Carleton and St. Olaf), it is a fun college town. Just my two cents. I have visited Williams and Amherst and they are truly amazing, too.</p>
<p>Just to be clear, I said that Williams and Amherst had twice the percentage of underrepresented minorities (excluding Asian-American students, who are well represented at virtually every top school) as Carleton, and that is accurate. For example, at Williams, roughly 9-10 percent of the student body is Latino, and roughly 11 percent is Black. Carleton features around 5 percent of the student body in each category, I believe. </p>
<p>Also, those Fiske numbers have been outdated for many years. Williams, in the entering class, has 38 percent students of color, and 37 percent students of color in the class of 2015 (plus another 7 percent international students). Amherst was even higher, at 43 percent. </p>
<p>Those numbers have been going up each year, so while Williams’ overall domestic minority percentage is at about 35 percent, that number will be rising as older, less diverse classes continue to be replaced by new, more diverse classes. Same deal at Amherst, as it too has been growing increasingly diverse over time.</p>
<p>Thanks to everyone for all the advice thus far! Williams is out front for me as of now, followed by Carleton—though I’d like to hear more of Grinnell in comparison.</p>
<p>As for cliques, how do these schools stack up? I’ve heard a plethora of complaints about Northwestern having “cliqueyness” and an overall elitism that is unfavorable. I honestly don’t fit into most cliques in high school; if possible, I’d prefer not to repeat in college.</p>
<p>Grinnell and Carleton are very similar and have a great many cross-applicants. Grinnell is on the semester system, which some prefer because it reduces the feeling of always being about to, or in the middle of, mid-terms, finals, or registration for the next set of classes. And if you get behind, you have very little chance to make it up. On the other hand, if you have a class you don’t like, you are stuck there longer.</p>
<p>Carleton is slightly more selective and a bit more mainstream - the midwest doesn’t have a lot of preppies, but if it did, Carleton would attract more of them than Grinnell. Since you are leaning towards Williams, you may find Carleton a better fit. On the other hand, Grinnell has palatial sports (and other) facilities, walk-on sports teams, and a massive endowment which has resulted in exceptionally small class sizes, lots of support for student activities and brings a significant international student body to campus (11%) through scholarships to increase the diversity. </p>
<p>Grinnell sounds great as well, as I’m sure all these school’s are! I’ve heard that Oberlin is also similar. Could it serve as more of a “safety,” or would chances of admission be similar to Carl and Grin? I have yet to find a safety school that I’d be happy, and financially able, to attend.</p>
<p>Needless to say that all of this advice has helped me voluminously in my decision. Williams, Grinnell and Carleton seem like the best options for me (in that order, most likely.) I believe that, if I’m lucky enough to be able to attend any of them, I’ll have memorable college years.</p>
<p>Oberlin is another midwestern LACs that gets a lot of cross-over applicants from Carleton and Grinnell. (Macalester is probably the 4th in that list and the only urban LAC among them.) All of these LACs are well known to and respected by top grad schools.</p>
<p>Carleton is somewhat more selective than Grinnell, but I wouldn’t consider Grinnell a safety by comparison. Take a look at the Common Data Set (google it) for both schools and compare the stats in Section C to give you a feel for the difference. Academic safeties might be Beloit and Lawrence. St. Olaf’s is more conservative than the others here but also a solid choice for a safety - located in the same town as Carleton. Not sure about how generous the financial aid would be. </p>
<p>And yes, no matter which of these schools you end up at, you will have a fantastic - and a life-changing - experience.</p>
<p>St. Olaf’s, Beloit, Macalester, and Lawrence or not Questbridge schools. Oberlin is.</p>
<p>LeaderTomorrow - I think it’s safe to say that none of the schools on Questbridge’s list are safety schools. If you’re looking for “just in case” backup schools, then you need to be aware that most schools that might be considered safety schools do not commit to meeting 100% of need. So, you need to look at schools where your stat’s would put you at the very tippy top of the candidates applying to those schools, so that you would get either a merit award or a more generous financial aid award. (The schools that don’t meet 100% of need often give more money to the candidates they like the most.)</p>
<p>Yet another slander against the city in which I have lived for almost 25 years. The only crime I’ve experienced is when I left my car unlocked and someone lifted my GPS. Actually, one of the most shocking crimes was a Yale employee’s murder of a grad student. There is no more and no less crime than in any other urban school.</p>
<p>That said, my Williams alum wife would love our kid–rising high school sophomore–to become an Eph. She thinks he’s the prototypical Williams student–brilliant academically, but well rounded. He plays varsity lacrosse, the trombone and the cello, volunteers at an ecology based summer camp, and will be tutoring math next year. He likes that Williams has, arguably, the top undergraduate math department in the country, but is concerned that it’s “in the middle of nowhere.”</p>
<p>I’ve lived in Amherst, and it’s a great location. It benefits from the Five College program, and the size of UMASS, which makes for a very lively scene.</p>
<p>But I wouldn’t mind if he went to Yale leaving us with a semi-empty nest. </p>
<p>I could put in a word here for U Chicago, where I went to grad school. It’s a medium sized university that puts many resources into undergraduate education, and Chicago is a great city.</p>
<p>Amherst’s five college consortium is definitely an attraction for me; I wouldn’t mind going to other schools in that partnership (too bad Smith and Mount Holyoke are strictly for women, being a male and all lol). With that said, it doesn’t feel “right,” partly due to their rivalry with Williams, which seems like a utopic environment for me. That probably sounds silly, but it’s more of a feeling …</p>
<p>I agree, it is nieve to think any member of QuestBridge could be a “sure thing.” Thanks for the references, dodgersmom! I have researched Beloit College some, and it looks like a strong possibility as well, despite not being a “QuestBridge Partner,” per say—it sounds fairly similar to Grinnell! It may serve as a strong safety choice if they have sufficient financial aid. </p>
<p>Finally, a Yale employee murdered a grad student?? That sounds pretty severe; do you have more details about the incident, latichever?</p>
<p>Unfortunately, there have been some pretty horrific incidents at many fine schools. If you’re going to avoid any location where something bad has happened, you’ll end up leading a pretty sheltered existence. Sad, but true.</p>
<p>Agree, bad things happen at good colleges, all of them. You just have to go with the environment and ambience that seems right for you for four years. New Haven and Williamstown are really on opposite ends of the spectrum but you could make a case for or against either one.</p>
<p>That’s my point. Thousands and thousands of students spend four years at all colleges without incident. People often point to a city like New Haven–a great place to live–as a negative. But dangers–rare dangers–can have nothing to do the the greater community in which a school is located. What happened at Yale was totally independent of New Haven.</p>