Williams v. Carleton v. Yale v. Grinnell v. Amherst

<p>Hi CC users!</p>

<p>I have narrowed down my college search to these "top 5," if you will, but am having a hard time choosing which is the best fit for me. Here are my criteria:</p>

<ul>
<li>A school that is non-competitive; rather, everyone is more supportive towards one another.</li>
<li>A place with unique students and a community feel; where I can meet some amazing people.</li>
<li>I'm kind of odd myself (in a good way!) so I enjoy to be around others who don't always take themselves so seriously.</li>
<li>Distance may be a problem for those around me, but I want to go where I'll get the best edu. possible—I live in Minnesota currently.</li>
<li>I intend to major in Psychology and go on to earn my PhD after undergrad.</li>
<li>Academics that will challenge me, but are not so intense where there is no time for anything else.</li>
<li>A school where a car is not a requisite—meaning that I can survive for four years w/o one.</li>
<li>Financial aid is a MUST for me. I want to minimize loans while maximizing learning potential.</li>
<li>Finally, a large diversity—both culturally and socioeconomically—is an important factor as well.</li>
</ul>

<p>Please don't comment on chances at any of these institutions; I'm well aware. Just looking to solve a conundrum for a specific scenario.</p>

<p>If you could help me, by comparing and contrasting the above options—or other options that could better meet my preferences, I'll be extremely appreciative!</p>

<p>Why wouldn’t you apply to all 5 and then make a decision depending on where you got accepted and what the aid package is? Doesn’t sound like you are a candidate for ED since you need to be able to negotiate the aid.</p>

<p>Oh please. Get into all of these or a subset and then worry about it. Unless you have all five acceptances in hand, the chances are high the decision will be made for you.</p>

<p>My son is a graduate of Williams. I would say that Williams more or less fulfills all of your requirements. The others may score well too, but Williams is the one I’m most familiar with, so let me know if I can expand on your questions.</p>

<p>The weakest point on your wishlist for all the schools – except Yale – is diversity. The colleges themselves do a good job at achieving all types of diversity, but the surrounding areas are primarily White, though the economic strata vary.</p>

<p>I agree, apply to all and see how the chips fall. Or apply to Yale EA and recalibrate after you get the results.</p>

<p>Financial aid at all would be good as long as you qualify for NEED based aid. If you’re looking for merit you can eliminate W,Y & A.</p>

<p>The physical environment varies widely among W, Y & A from rural mountain village, to big campus in dense urban environment to small vibrant town. (I haven’t been to the other two.) So you might want to vist to get a better idea of what would suit you best. If the purpose of your query is to determine an ED choice, then visits are essential. As is careful attention to financing.</p>

<p>I wouldn’t say that ED is never a good idea when financial aid is involved, but you must clearly understand the risks.</p>

<p>The good thing is, Carleton’s application is free, so you’d only be paying for four schools (and the cost of sending test scores to the fifth). All of these schools, except Grinnell, have very low acceptance rates. If you’re willing to relax the car requirement, Occidental might be a good school for you. Also you could check out schools with ZipCar programs which let you rent a car for a few hours when you want to do something.</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>Thread over.</p>

<p>(Every school meets your criteria.)</p>

<p>I’m applying through the QuestBridge program; meaning, for those of you who are unfamiliar, that I must rank these 5 said institutions in the order of best fit. Which, in turn, will prove similar to ED in that I must attend the highest ranked school that accepts me.</p>

<p>With this being the case, it is crucial that I thoroughly understand the differences in edu. quality and the benefits/detriments of each college before hand, thus why I posted this thread: to gain more insight into what school would prove a best fit based on the above criteria and other aspects that might be relevant. This is in addition to visits; I have visited Northwestern (didn’t seem like the right fit, though), and have received Windows on Williams to visit Williams College in October. I also intend to visit Carleton in Aug./Sept.</p>

<p>Thanks all replies thus far—with emphasis on whenhen and momrath for addressing the question I posed more so.</p>

<p>Any additional comparisons + why you’d choose one of these schools over the other?</p>

<p>That is a great list of schools, I am a Williams grad so I am biased in that direction, but you can’t go wrong at any of the five. It seems to me like Yale would either be number one or number five on that list, since it is so different from the rest, and both in terms of size, institutional culture (a more serious and intense place, in my view), location (New Haven is VERY different from the other four locales), etc., it is readily distinguishable. </p>

<p>The other four present a closer call. Financial aid at Williams, Amherst and Yale is top notch. Carleton I don’t know about in that regard. Grinnell is probably good too since the school is uber-rich. But if you are Questbridge, and you are admitted as a Questbridge scholar, don’t you get a full-ride to any school that you are matched with, anyway? I thought that was how Questbridge works, but I could well be mistaken. In all events, at most of those schools, financial aid is very good. </p>

<p>Speaking to the four liberal arts schools on the list:</p>

<p>In terms of diversity, Williams and Amherst are both more diverse than either Grinnell or Carleton, particularly racially (around double the percentage of underepresented US minority students vs. Grinnell / Carleton). I think that Williams and Amherst are both more geographically diverse as well thanks to the national reputation / pull. None of those schools are particularly economically diverse, although both Amherst and Williams have been making a big effort to increase the number of first generation college students and Pell Grant recipients on campus, to the point where they are now at the top of the liberal arts category in these dimenions.</p>

<p>Williams is DEFINITELY a non-competitive place, and students are uber-supportive of one another. That will not be an issue for you at all. Academics, like at all of those schools, require a lot of work, but there is no competition at ALL when it comes to grades, and the campus, despite having a lot of folks who are very academically minded, is a relaxed, down-to-earth sort of place. The beautiful small-town environment and insular nature of the community is a plus in that regard, it is really a VERY supportive and congenial place. You will certainly meet a lot of interesting people as well. And yes, the school doesn’t take itself too seriously: hard to do so when your mascot is the purple cow. Look up traditions like Mountain Day, Winter Carnival, the well-known end-of-semester Williams Trivia contest, the Green Chicken, Free University during Winter Study, the Springstreakers, and so on, and you will see that the campus really embraces quirky traditions and personalities. Someone more acquainted with the other liberal arts schools will have to speak more to this dimension on those campuses, but I’d bet that all four are roughly similar in this regard. </p>

<p>It is nice to have a car on campus, I will say, but it’s certainly not a big deal since you will almost certainly have friends who have cars. Frosh can’t have cars in any event. There is plenty going on on campus and in town, but it is nice to get a way to escape the purple bubble for a day / weekend trip a few times per semester. Again, not something you need regular access to a car for, because you can always hitch a ride with folks who do, or use a college vehicle / Zipcar. </p>

<p>Try to visit Amherst when you are at Williams, only 1.5 hours away. After those two visits plus Carleton, I think you’ll have a much better sense. Good luck!</p>

<p>Yale has a lot of competitive people at it. Not sure if it would meet your criterion of non-competitiveness.</p>

<p>Hmm, Williams sounds amazing—as I’ve thought for well over a year. It’s been my top choice for quite some time. Thanks for the detailed reply Ephman! I’m very excited to visit. I’m starting to think Yale is the bull in this china shop—excuse my tackiness—since I prefer a smaller community feel (how’s New Haven’s safety?)</p>

<p>Any feedback on Carleton or Grinnell?</p>

<p>Yale, obviously. None of those other 4 schools will give you the same prestige or experience. And they’re so completely isolated, unlike Yale.</p>

<p>Just do a search on Grinnell vs. Carleton, or any other pair of schools and you’ll get lots of threads with pros and cons.</p>

<p>Yes, I think Yale is not want you want unless all you’re concerned about is “prestige.” The smaller LACs will give you a much more personalized and in my opinion, happier experience. I know Grinnell with its huge endowment is very generous with financial aid if you can get in. Only drawback is some of these LACs are not very diverse. You should compare the stats on diversity if that is really important to you.</p>

<p>You may want to go through the course catalogs in the departments of your intended or possible majors to see what subareas of your intended or possible majors they have the best offerings in. Different schools have different subareas of emphasis for any given department. Psychology is a fairly large field with many subareas.</p>

<p>See what their net price calculators estimate for financial aid for you.</p>

<p>Don’t forget to include some safeties (assured admission, assured affordability schools that you like) in your application list.</p>

<p>Go to the Carleton forum and do a search for threads with “Grinnell” in the title . . . and visa versa. Lots of healthy competition (and cross-applicants) at these two schools, so there are plenty of threads (in both forums) that compare the two.</p>

<p>I can’t recall - is it Carleton that’s on different calendar than the others? A trimester system, I believe. That would definitely make a difference . . . you have to be on top of your classes right from the start, or the trimester will be over before you know it! And, if you fall behind, there’s not a lot of room for catching up. It’s something to think about - you’d either love it or hate it.</p>

<p>Carleton has three 10 week terms in an academic year (quarter system).</p>

<p>Most courses are 6 credits. A normal course load is 18 credits per quarter (three normal courses), and 210 credits are needed to graduate (twelve quarters of 18 credits each makes 216 credits). The minimum course load is 12 credits, while course loads over 22 credits require special permission.</p>

<p>[Carleton</a> College: Dean of Students: Academic Regulations and Procedures: Academic Load](<a href=“http://apps.carleton.edu/campus/dos/asc/academic_regs/?policy_id=21362]Carleton”>http://apps.carleton.edu/campus/dos/asc/academic_regs/?policy_id=21362)</p>

<ol>
<li><p>I have to agree with some, disagree with other comments about Yale. Their residential college system shrinks the school and breeds intimacy/tight knit classes in a way in which few uni’s can. Harvard has tried, but thus far failed, to successfully emulate this. But there is still no confusing Yale with Williams. Yale is flooded with grad students, does not shy away from its research directed roots, and rarely do people need to stop for cow crossings in New Haven. As a city, it’s come a long way since the 70s but remains a less than welcoming place beyond a narrow corridor fringing the campus. In all of this, Yale remains an outlier, neither good nor bad necessarily, but an outlier among your listings.</p></li>
<li><p>Of the LACs on your list, I’ve definitely found Amherst to support a measurably more traditional, less “odd …in a good way,” “unique,” student body. Again, as with Yale’s location, neither a + nor - in a general sense, but defining itself as a bit of an outlier among your selections. Carleton, Grinnell, and Williams are much more sympatico in this regard.</p></li>
<li><p>Carleton is most local to you and may be most familiar. There will be somewhat less racial diversity found there, but the campus is extremely economically diverse with historically some of the largest percentages you’ll see among top schools anywhere of students on financial aid. In general, you’ll see less “boarding school” wealth than that found at east coast counterparts. 10% of entering classes are international. It is possibly the most “playfully individualistic” place on your list. People are simply not afraid to be themselves in a wonderfully tolerant environment. Poseurs are fortunately in short supply. Academic/intellectual challenges, pranksters and ultimate frisbee reign supreme (not necessarily in that order). If you’re not ready to blow soap bubbles on a procession of tenured professors, you may want to apply elsewhere.</p></li>
</ol>

<p>The intimacy of the residential college system at Yale mostly kicks in after freshman year. The first year most freshmen have to live on Old Campus and it can be (I’m not arguing that it is for everyone) daunting. Not everyone’s experience is the same, it is true. But having done both Yale and a small LAC, I’m pushing the smaller colleges for my own kids.</p>

<p>Yeah, yale might not be the best fit for you…all 4 other schools on your list are liberal arts schools, and yale is not. and the atmosphere would definitely NOT be relaxed and laid back…yale’s pretty intense lol.</p>

<p>Okay, I’d say that Carl. trimester based curriculum might prove foreboding; Grinnell is similar I hear, but is there a prevailing extremism? I’ve heard many complaints in this regard. I consider myself to be moderate overall; liberal in ideology but slightly conservative in methodology.</p>

<p>I’d say Yale sounds like an amazing school, but probably not the place for me! A possible graduate school option, though.</p>

<p>How would you describe Williams students in comparison to the prevailing quirkiness at Carl and Grin? I enjoy playing sports and participating in activities, but I am not very talented and intend to just participate in intramurals—possibly volleyball and basketball.</p>