Williams vs Bowdoin vs Amherst vs Dartmouth

Colleges and Universities A-Z Williams College
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<p>Hey guys! I am a rising senior in high school and am interested in the four following schools-- Williams College, Bowdoin College, Amherst College, and Dartmouth College. I am very interested in psychology (mainly) and education, as I want to work with special needs kids in an educational way when I grow up. I go to a very small private high school (300 kids) where there is an obvious community feeling, awesome teacher-student relationships, no bullying/cliques, everyone is accepting of each other-- we're pretty much one big family. I am not really a very social kid outside of school, as I am the kind who'd rather stay home in a comfortable setting than go out partying; have also never drunk nor smoked or done any drugs, so I wouldn't be really comfortable in a social climate where such behavior dominates. </p>

<p>Knowing this about me, I have a few questions--</p>

<p>1) How are the psychology and/or education departments at each school (versus the others)? In terms of professors, academics, post college-successes, etc.... strengths and weaknesses</p>

<p>2) How would you describe the social life? In terms of the people, dominant activities (drinking, extracurriculars, weekend stuff), etc. </p>

<p>3) Regarding the people, how would you describe them? Are they cliquey? Or are they accepting of one another, generally happy, care for one another, etc? What is the feeling you get when you walk through each campus?</p>

<p>4) In general, how are the professors? Are the professors willing to meet with you outside of class, answer questions readily, want to help you, care about your success, are knowledgeable in their respective fields, etc? Or the opposite?</p>

<p>5) Since I am pretty uncomfortable partying and doing a lot of social activities, how is the residential life? Is it beneficial in that you are able to make friends easily? Any good or bad experiences?</p>

<p>So I'm pretty much looking for pros and cons, similarities, differences, uniquenesses, etc. Anything else you want to add, please do! Thanks in advance!!</p>

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<p>Bump</p>

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<p>Those are some pretty broad questions–I think you should look through these forums to see what people have said about social life and academics, and check out the college and psych department websites, course catalogue, etc. Also, unless you’re extremely self-aware or have solid convictions on the matter, don’t assume that you will not go to parties, have a few drinks or whatever when you’re in college based on your current feelings about “going out” (so to speak). (No one should be drinking–or doing drugs, for that matter–in high school anyway.) I just loathed high school proms and parties and I didn’t mind sitting in front of the TV with my parents on Friday nights, but as a 21 year-old at Williams, I’ve learned to adapt and have fun in any social situation despite my helpless nerdiness! </p>

<p>FYI, there is no education program at Williams, let alone special needs education. This is something you would have to study independently. There is at least one developmental psychologist in the department, though. </p>

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<p>First, I’ll echo what FoxboroPiper said about no education program. In fact, very few of the types of schools you are focused on (liberal arts or liberal art-heavy) will have an education/teaching major … or any other sort of more “practical” major, like accounting or business. Williams does have a lot of community service opportunities related to education, and a Winter Study class where you can teach in NYC for a month one January, but these are all enrichment opportunities, rather than core parts of the curriculum:</p>

<p><a href=“http://learning-in-action.williams.edu/category/fieldwork/by-sector/education/”>http://learning-in-action.williams.edu/category/fieldwork/by-sector/education/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Most Williams students who are interested in teaching (and there are many) will work at a private school or participate in Teach for America right after college. Other than those two options, you would have to graduate work in education while getting certified. </p>

<p>In terms of your original question, it’s honestly hard to pick any group of four colleges in the country that are more similar to one another. You really can’t go wrong at any of the four, and will have a very similar experience at any of them (with Dartmouth probably the biggest outlier, but we are still talking relatively small differences). All attract well-rounded, intellectual kids, many of whom are interested in either athletics or the outdoors. </p>

<p>I’d say just apply to and visit all four. Odds are, your choice will be narrowed down a bit via the application process, and most of the vibey types of questions you are asking will be best answered by a campus visit or two while school is in session. </p>

<p>To answer a few of your specific questions, I can definitely say that Williams, at least, has the type of enthusiastic, friendly, happy student body, with a tremendous sense of community and great relationships with professors, that you seem to be focused. In fact it’s hard to find a school anywhere with a more passionate community of learning, both among students and then into alumnihood. </p>

<p>The professors are all of the things you ask for as well (and I’m sure the same is true of, at least, Amherst and Bowdoin as well) … very accessible, engaged with undergraduates, readily answer questions, and so on. Read up on the tutorial program at Williams which is one aspect of the education that distinguishes it from the other three, and exemplifies the Williams vision for professor-student interaction. I note that Williams has the lowest student-prof ratio of pretty much any liberal arts college (and definitely of those three schools) at 7:1, so the school has devoted a lot of resources to ensuring that professors are accessible. </p>

<p>Overall, though, I don’t think that either the education or the social life will be dramatically different among any of these four schools, which, again, all feature similar visions for what an undergraduate education should consist of. So why not just apply to all four and let the chips fall where they may? I’d add Middlebury too, because that is very similar to those four as well. </p>

<p>I don’t know much in particular about Psychology at Williams other than that it is a large and popular department. One bit of fun trivia: G. Stanley Hall, the father of American Psychology and the first American to be awarded a Ph.D. in Psychology, is a Williams alum :). For a few examples of more recent Eph success story in Psychology, check out some of the work that Mike Norton and Sam Sommers have done:</p>

<p><a href=“Michael I. Norton - Faculty & Research - Harvard Business School”>Michael I. Norton - Faculty & Research - Harvard Business School;
<a href=“Home | Department of Psychology”>Home | Department of Psychology;

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<p>There’s a big drinking culture at all of these schools (as there is at nearly all small, rural colleges). That being said, you’ll find plenty of students who don’t drink, so you should be able to find your niche. </p>

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<p>Williams College is practically in the middle of nowhere. The college practically makes up Williamstown, and beyond the few cultural activities nearby(Mass MOCA, Clark Art etc.), there isn’t much there. So make sure that that sort of college appeals to you. </p>

<p>Academics: Academics are fantastic at Williams. For an LAC, I’d say it has rock solid departments in almost all disciplines (except engineering, there isn’t really a department there for it). Psychology should be fine.</p>

<p>Professors: They freaking rock. Sometimes the professors come and give guest presentations in the local schools and they’re really knowledgeable and kind. It’s easy to interact with them, and I’m sure that they’d be more than willing to launch you to success. </p>

<p>Res Life: Tbh, there is a LOT of partying at Williams. Like I’ve said, it’s in the middle of nowhere. What else are people going to do? But like with any college, if you don’t want to get seriously involved with the party culture, there are ways for you to avoid that. Just be aware that it will be extremely difficult to completely avoid drinking. The dorms are pretty neat though, and Williams is also known to give out a lot of singles to freshman (60% of the incoming class usually gets a single).</p>

<p>Students: Don’t know too much about them, but the people I know there are very kind and accepting. </p>

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<p>Hi–my d goes to Bowdoin and my s is a senior who is looking at Bowdoin, Amherst, and Williams, so we’ve done all the visits, overnights, etc. and have a good sense of how they are similar/different.</p>

<p>Bowdoin has an education department with a teaching minor: <a href=“Education | Bowdoin College”>http://www.bowdoin.edu/education/&lt;/a&gt;. Many Bowdoin students are able to get teacher certified while at Bowdoin through this program, so it plugs the gap between liberal arts education and the practical need to have a teaching certification if you want to work in k-12 education later. My d was encouraged to get out into the community and teach right from freshman year (she is not in the education department at all–but the whole school is geared toward mentoring and teaching in one capacity or another). I’ve heard that the psychology department is amazing but very tough–but it’s not my D’s field so you’d have to ask some psych people about that.</p>

<p>Bowdoin is extremely friendly and accepting. The students frown on excessive competitiveness or active discussion of grades. The network is amazing. I think the graduates feel so attached to their Bowdoin experience, they are giddy when they discover other Bowdoin graduates elsewhere, and will do anything to help a fellow Bowdoin grad.</p>

<p>At all three of these schools, the focus is on teaching undergraduates, and the quality of the education is unsurpassed. They just have somewhat different school personalities. In a nutshell, I think of Bowdoin as friendly and taking their “common good” focus very seriously (that works into the education department mission, obviously). You should think about what kind of lifestyle you would like to have, because I think you can accomplish just about anything at those schools. Williams is the most remote, Amherst is possibly the most intense, and all three have a party culture that I’m sure you could avoid somewhat until you figure out who you want to hang out with for four years.</p>

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<p>Brandeis had an education minor and an education masters and Vassar has an education department with a major and a minor. Vassar eduction majors have opportunities right in Poughkeepsie. Maybe take another look at these two schools also since both have extremely accepting campuses and a great sense of community. You still have some time and have made some good choices already. I hope you can visit all the schools you are interested in so you can see for yourself. It is great that you want the breadth of a liberals arts college and an education major.</p>

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<p>“Williams is the most remote”</p>

<p>Bowdoin is more remote. They’re similarly distant from Boston, but Williamstown is closer to NYC. And Bowdoin is in Maine ;)</p>

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<p>I would say that Williams is considerably more remote than Bowdoin. Visit both and I think you’ll agree. Williams is in a one street town (beautiful, however), surrounded by mountains and far from even a medium sized city whereas Bowdoin is in a town that feels much larger than Williamstown and relatively close to Portland, a cosmopolitan and interesting small city.</p>

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<p>(I’ve visited both and I went to Williams)
I suppose we are operating with different criteria. I don’t consider Portland, ME to be much more of a draw than Albany (far larger than Portland) or Troy (slightly smaller than Portland), both of which are fairly close to Williamstown, but really, I was solely considering proximity to large cities, as Williams students are far more likely to head to Boston or NYC than to Albany or Troy. </p>

<p>I’m not really sure calling Williamstown a “one street town” is a fair evaluation, considering its amazing art museums (three, all world class) and music (Tanglewood), but de gustibus, I suppose.</p>

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<p>Sometimes you miss the small things. My daughter goes to a LAC in a much bigger city, but the campus is two miles from the nearest store, restaurant, etc. Williamstowm is small, but you can walk to a Subway, other eateries, and stores. That makes it less of a bubble. </p>

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<p>My son (Midd grad last May) was a Nescac athlete, so we spent time in Amherst, Williamstown and Brunswick-many weekends, really. He also interviewed at all of the above. </p>

<p>Dartmouth is the furthest from anywhere else, then Williams. Bowdoin is a quick shot to Portland, and a little further to Boston, no hilly, snowy, claustrophobic mountain roads. Brunswick is a surprisingly hopping town, and the entire Maine coast is a tourist mecca, so there is lots of fine dining as well as shopping and the arts. Williamstown is a one street town with 5 restaurants. Everything else seems far away. </p>

<p>You really can’t go wrong at any of these schools, and if you can get into any of them, you are fortunate. All of them have fabulous faculty, facilities, and alumni networks. If you are applying ED you have to pick a first choice, but otherwise certainly apply to them all-plus a few safeties.</p>

<p>Minor impressions-Amherst seemed the most “preppy”, Dartmouth the most “beery”, and Williams has the smallest student body. If you like to ski, Dartmouth or Williams has the best access, and if you like the ocean, go to Bowdoin.</p>

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<p>Oldbatesiedoc’s post is a bit misleading. First, the Williams student body is substantially (about 20 percent) larger than Amherst’s and Bowdoin’s, even though both have grown quite a bit over the past decade. Williams may be located in a very small town, but I think the combination of campus-focus and more students (plus better and more varied student life facilities) = more going on in terms of on-campus life. </p>

<p>Also, I feel like I’m constantly defending Williamstown, but the fact is that it’s not remotely close to your typical small “one street town” (and by the way, that ignores Water Street and Main Street, both of which have a lot of commercial enterprises). It is, certainly, a small town rural in character. But it has a lot more going on than many towns which are much bigger, especially in the arts. There is The Clark, a world-class art museum that just massively expanded. An independent movie theater. Ski slopes and a few really nice golf courses. A fantastic coffee and pastry shop. Three bars (including the college-owned Log). A great bookstore and even a record store (a dying breed). A ton of places to eat (a lot more than five!), including a few delis, several pizza places, a burrito place, an ice cream shop, Thai, Indian, Vietnamese, Mediterranean restaurants, a wine/beer-focused bar/restaurant, a steak place, a burger-and-nachos type place, and then several higher-end restaurants a bit further off campus but still in Williamstown. And then North Adams, five minutes away, has MassMoca, which is a massive, spectacular (and ever-expanding) museum with a rich array of major cultural events and concerts hosted on site, plus a larger movie theater and more places to eat. There is a lot more to Williamstown than meets the eye via a quick drive through, and honestly, if you can’t find something to do in town, you don’t have a very diverse group of interests. Does that mean it will appeal to an urban-oriented kid? Is there a thriving night life or a club scene? Of course not. But you are so busy with campus life and academics, that the town can easily provide more than enough distractions (hiking, skiing, golf, high-quality movies, art, eating, drinking) so it doesn’t need to feel like you are confined only to college-sponsored activities. And as others have said, if you want a weekend away, Boston and New York are both easy enough car trips to escape once per semester. </p>

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<p>Thanks for these comparisons and contrasts. Each time I hear people try and figure out Amherst versus Bowdoin versus Williams I listen to similar plaudits. Well said here.</p>

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I have visited all four schools in the last year. D has applied RD to Williams and Amherst. All four are very good colleges. D did not apply to Bowdoin because it was just too preppy. I’m sorry but that was her opinion. We drove several hours from Boston while visiting N.England colleges and she did not even want to go on the tour. Dartmouth is not a “party school” like an ASU but students there do drink and have a good time.

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She cannot go wrong with either of those colleges. Which one is better? Depends on what she wants to study! Good luck!

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Among these four schools, all of which are top notch and roughly equivalent academically, Bowdoin would be my choice based on two factors:

  1. Consistent reports (See Niche, College Prowler, Princeton Rev. etc.) of tremendous student happiness and a great quality of life; and

  2. Bowdoin’s coastal location (think surfing and lobster bakes at Popham beach) in a great college town (Brunswick, 90 restaurants of all types), 20 minutes from a great small city (Portland), and convenience to Boston via a high speed train (about 2 hrs) which leaves from Brunswick Station (immediately adjacent to campus) making a day trip to the big city cheap and very convenient.