Williams vs Bowdoin vs Carleton vs Georgetown

Colleges and Universities A-Z Williams College
1

<p>My S has the luck of having been accepted at many fine LAC's as well as national universities. His narrowed down list includes Williams, Bowdoin, Carleton & Georgetown (College). Having a tough time deciding (yes, we both visited all so have a feel for them). </p>

<p>About my S: loves international relations, biology, poli sci, history, English, foreign languages, music. Not sporty, more intellectual. Major, unsure like many kids. Says he doesn't care about weather (San Diego kid, but his call). At this point thinks he wants to go for a MD PhD.</p>

<p>Having a really hard time finalizing the decision. Any advice on narrowing the choices to the final one?</p>

<p>Questions:
* How does the strength of the different alumni groups compare with each other?
* Do all have equal appeal for grad school admissions officers?
* Grade deflation / inflation for different colleges?
* Opportunities for research?
* Opportunities for internships?
* Stress factor for kids?
* Value of name recognition (domestic / global) for the school?
* Academic advising strength?
* Tradeoff of lack of LAC name recognition (vs national university) versus ability to have more access to prof's?
* Is GU worth the extra money (terrible financial aid!!).</p>

<p>Hope to hear some insightful thoughts - not rich and am mortgaging my future for S.</p>

2

<p>The answers to these questions can be found easily with a little research. I would say uncategorically the GU is not worth the extra money. If the finances had been equal it may have been the best choice, but I would not pay a premium for GU over these fine LAC’s.</p>

<p>Those are quite a list of loves. I would say that all three schools would probably meet his needs. International relations and history say Bowdoin to me, but bio, pre-med and music say Williams to me. Carleton also has a strong reputation in the sciences, and I’m sure they all have strong English departments.</p>

<p>In choosing between the three LAC’s I think fit can be your guide, and if your S wants more input he can read the course descriptions at each school in favorite departments. That gives some insight into each school’s pedagogy.</p>

3

<p>Hi Mythmom,</p>

<p>Thanks a lot. </p>

<p>Certainly my son and I have both done extensive research. However, we are on the W Coast and don’t have the advantage of being on the E Coast like some here on this site. A full 99.99% of Californians will never have heard of even Pomona College, let alone Williams, Bowdoin or Carleton. Being a native Californian, I know what it means to go to Berkeley vs Stanford vs Cal State Long Beach vs Pepperdine. Throw in a LAC, and I am clueless. Yes, I know what they are, how teaching differs from a national university, resource tradeoffs and all the rest. I can get that from research. What I don’t know is what happens when you graduate from a NE (or mid-W) liberal arts college and go to find a job (assuming you don’t go straight to grad school). </p>

<p>I spoke with many seniors from GU (on my own, not the dog and pony show at GAAP), and all of them (100%) found great jobs. How? They all told me the same thing, an alum helped me. Even one girl who studied advertising at GU (virtually non-existent at GU) got a job in NY at the top advertising firm in the country due to an alum. To me, that can be worth more money. How much? It depends. If you graduate from Bowdoin/Williams/Carleton and have a 50/50 shot at moving back in with mom and dad after graduation (given the economy and future outlook a real risk), then extra money for GU if their alum deliver could be worth it. </p>

<p>Simple and straightforward question. Do top tier (Williams/Bowdoin/Carleton) alum really help graduates get jobs upon graduation and get internships before? If not, after graduation unless you want to live in Minneapolis, Boston or NYC you could be left with you resume stuck in the stack as some HR manager thinks those are online schools or one like Phoenix University… I know this sounds silly, but outside of the NE no one knows these schools (except for grad school admission officers who do highly respect them).</p>

<p>Many thanks for advice. This is a very tough decision.</p>

4

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<p>I can only speak for Williams. My son is an 07 graduate. Through a Williams/private industry collaboration, he landed a prestigious internship while he was at Williams. After graduation he was hired by a Boston firm that listed the position through Williams career center. He started work the day after graduation!</p>

<p>He is now in graduate school at a highly regarded program. No doubt, his Williams recommendations helped a lot there too.</p>

<p>His three best friends fared similarly. Two chose public service careers – Teach for America, Peace Corps – immediately after graduation. They are now all either enrolled or applying to top tier graduate programs. Williams also provided travel stipends during their undergraduate years.</p>

<p>If your son is interested in a career in government or a public service NGO, most likely the decision makers (who are likely to be graduates of the same top tier colleges) would be familiar with Williams. For medical school, no question but that his Williams experience would be acknowledged and appreciated.</p>

<p>I don’t know that I could quantify the difference between the hiring potential of GU versus Williams, but I would say that the environment and culture is wildly different. Williams/Bowdoin/Carleton have more overlap in personality.</p>

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<p>The Williams alumni network is one of the best, anywhere. Yes, there are far fewer Williams alums than, say, Georgetown alums, but they are also, I am confident, (a) far more loyal on the average and (b) far more excited to hear from an undergrad and try to help (I certainly have corresponded with my fair share who have found me through the extensive online Williams career network, which basically landed me one of my jobs long after graduation). And since Williams has the strongest (by a slight margin) academic reputation of that group, the alums are concentrated at places your son is going to want to be – top research labs, gov’t agencies, businesses, academic institutions, and so on. Georgetown’s strength is concentrated in gov’t / foreign service type jobs, so i am sure its alumni network and name rep in that area are unparalleled, but outside of that arena, I don’t see advantage whatsoever from the G’town name – the type of elite employers and your son will be aiming for, for the most part, know Williams. And any grad school or fellowship certainly will. </p>

<p>But the biggest advantage Williams has over virtually any school lies in the tremendous research opportunities it offers to undergrads. Just saying, “I went to school ”, even if the school is Harvard, is less important in the science / research field than being able to point to particularly impressive research you have already conducted as an undergrad, and having a full professor willing to vouch for you / your research skills. These opportunities abound at Williams both during the school year and as paid summer internships. Read more here:</p>

<p>[Admissions</a> – Williams College| Science and Mathematics Research](<a href=“http://admission.williams.edu/bigpicture/difference/research]Admissions”>http://admission.williams.edu/bigpicture/difference/research)
[Williams</a> College : Williams College Spotlight on Student Research](<a href=“http://www.williams.edu/slider-stories/slider-stories-archive/spotlight-on-student-research/]Williams”>Spotlight on Student Research – Williams College)
[Williams</a> College :: News & Events - Press Releases](<a href=“Williams College”>Williams College)</p>

<p>And of course, every single top grad school / med school / Phd program in the country will be very impressed by a degree from Williams, more impressed by Williams than Georgetown in fact. So I certainly wouldn’t sweat that aspect. In fact, I’d say if you are looking for a Phd in a science field or for an MD, Georgetown would rank fourth … Bowdoin and Carleton are both highly respected in the academic community, a tiny notch behind Williams, but the difference is not dramatic at all. And I think they are both equal to Williams in terms of the caliber of undergrad educated provided, I think very highly of both of them and both are in great locations as well, even if they are a tiny bit (and really, it isn’t a huge difference) less prestigious than Williams … but I don’t know any specifics about science at either.</p>

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<p>You can read my response in another thread, but as both myself and my H are alumni at Georgetown, I’ll answer more specifically here as it pertains to Georgetown and Williams. I suspect the answers are similar for the other LACs.</p>

<p>Questions:

  • How does the strength of the different alumni groups compare with each other?
    The Williams alumni is much stronger unless you are sure you want Foreign Service and most students graduate from the SFS without going into that field. </p>

<ul>
<li><p>Do all have equal appeal for grad school admissions officers?
You would have to get very good grades at Georgetown to get a leg up on a Williams grad. But, IMO, it’s easier to get good grades at Georgetown.</p></li>
<li><p>Grade deflation / inflation for different colleges?
I can’t speak to this, but see above answers.</p></li>
<li><p>Opportunities for research?
Much easier at Williams. You’re not competing with graduate students who are first in line for opportunities.</p></li>
<li><p>Opportunities for internships?
It is easier at Williams as competing with fewer students.</p></li>
<li><p>Stress factor for kids?
Williams students work harder at school work and they tend to be involved with several other clubs and/or teams. They seem to be a much more disciplined group than I remember me and my fellow students going to school. </p></li>
<li><p>Value of name recognition (domestic / global) for the school?
Of course, Georgetown has better name recognition. I’ve never noticed any advantage other than people who recognize the name (many more recognize my graduate school UNC) think I’m smart.</p></li>
<li><p>Academic advising strength?
This may have changed, but my husband and myself got none. My daughter gets some, but I personally don’t think it’s a Williams strength unless you ask for it.</p></li>
<li><p>Tradeoff of lack of LAC name recognition (vs national university) versus ability to have more access to prof’s?
You’ll have to answer that yourself. It depends whether you want an education vs. name recognition.</p></li>
<li><p>Is GU worth the extra money (terrible financial aid!!).
No. See other thread.</p></li>
</ul>

7

<p>Sounds like Williams would be a great fit. Good luck to your S!</p>

8

<p>My S was given an extensive list of alums working in his field. He is a senior and his contacting them by email. All have given their names to career development because they wanted to help.</p>

<p>He’s a senior and is busily gathering information and contacts.</p>

<p>He has also worked in the field already and been put in a supervisory position, largely based on his Williams creds. </p>

<p>In addition, the Classics Department (his major but not his chosen field) arranged a summer research grant for him when he wanted to stay on campus for the summer. One of his professors said, "I hadn’t considered a research assistant, but sure, why not? Williams ponied up the funds and provided free housing.</p>

<p>So, perhaps he wasn’t as proactive as Momrath’s son. He left this to the last minute. Had he gone into the Career Development office earlier, I have no doubt that he would already have an internship or job lined up. Since he is switching fields, this is new territory to him, and Williams is absolutely being very helpful.</p>

<p>Calsbaddad, I didn’t mean to be snippy or challenging. I’m sorry if it was perceived that way. I simply meant that some of the factual questions could be answered easily from other threads.</p>

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<p>Williams has an incredible network of alums, who are loyal not just because of their experience at the school, but because of the well-oiled machine that is the alumni network – Wiliiams knows how to bind its alumni to the school from day one, through its class agent fundraising system, its reunions, its alumni review, the medals it awards its alumni who have done interesting things in their lives. It makes people feel like they are a lifetime member of the community and yes, this translates into job networking big time. </p>

<p>It stays well-connected to its alumni through the Career counseling office, too, to bring alumni expertise on campus and to connect students with jobs. And, I might add, that it uses both high-powered expertise and wants to hear from students new on the job ladder. I recall being asked to go back on campus, just a few years out of school myself, to talk about the industry I was in.</p>

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<p>Williams also keeps its alumni database updated and asks if you are willing to be contacted by other alumni.</p>

<p>In the Alumni Review (the magazine), class notes go on for pages for each year, no matter how far back they attended! It’s not a magazine where just a listing of accomplishments are noted, but a personal writeup by a class secretary that is engaging and full of life.</p>