I’d really appreciate your thoughts if you’ve got any on this choice:
My son was accepted into mechanical engineering at Wisconsin, into engineering at Penn State, and into electrical engineering at UIUC. We live in the NYC metropolitan area. I know from the USNWR undergrad rankings that the rank order for engineering is UIUC (#6), UW-Madison (#14), Penn State (#18).
Hoping you can give some advice about which would be the best for our situation.
About my son: He’s very hands-on, social, curious, althetic (although he doesn’t care about big 10 sports), can get into trouble and requires stimulation. Quietly competative and a team player. Currently he does not want to pursue a higher degree or do research. He just wants to get out there and start working.
The cons for us regarding UIUC are:
The place is really quite a culture shock coming from NYC. This is not a knock on Champaign-Urbana, it’s just a fact that the DIFFERENCES (midwest mindset vs. northeast mindset, extremely small, rural town vs. huge city) are going to be tough for my son, who does require a lot of stimulation.
I’m not 100% my son can cut it at that school. His high school is very small and they only offered 5 AP classes. Only one was in math and none were in the sciences.When we toured, one of the students told us she came into the college with 40 creits already.
The engineering school has a very high proportion of international students–which I think might be isolating?
Takes two flights to get there for us.
The pros of UIUC:
Most highly-ranked of the three
Seems to be prestigious nationwide
The cons for us regarding UW-Madison are:
Same bit of midwest culture shock (however the awesomeness of Madison might negate that)
ASEE reports that the average time it takes to get an engineering degree there is 4.5 years.
We can’t figure out how hands-on the mechanical engineering department is, but we saw a couple of labs and they were quite small.
Bad food in the cafeterias.
Pros of Wisconsin:
Madison
Short flight
Seems to be prestigious nationwide (especially among private schools)
Highest ranked for physics in case son switches
The cons for Penn State:
The lowest ranked of the three.
Out in the middle of nowhere
Pros of Penn State:
Seems to be recruited well by industry
the campus was smaller and prettier than the other two
The kids were more lively, generally more athletic
Was more familiar and closer to home, which is nice for getting a job near home
Forget about rankings. They’re all great schools. More importantly, he seems to have been admitted to different courses of study at each school. Which one interests him the most? That’s seemingly the primary thing to Dec de here.
Regarding culture shock, I’d suggest that it would be helpful to expand his horizons. If more NYC and LA folks spent a little time in “lowly flyover country” and vice versa, there probably wouldn’t be so much cultural polarization in the country right now.
I REALLY didn’t mean to offend, and I didn’t say anything aobut “lowly flyover country.” In fact, what led us to encourage him to apply to the midwest engineering powerhouses is the general “Right Stuff” midwestern values of hard work, plainspokenness and neighborliness.
What I did say was it WILL be a shock, and he requires stimulation. I guess I should just come out and say, he’s a little immature and if he doesn’t have a certain amount of stimulation, he will get into trouble! And that includes drinking too much!
He prefers mechanical engineering. He could do ME at either Penn State or Wisconsin.
I agree with @boneh3ad, ME vs EE in particular are very different. No matter where he goes, there will be plenty of drinking opportunities. There are at nearly all colleges, but most big state schools do partying well. That’s part of growing up (or in a few rate cases, going home). It’s up to him to find his balance, and like most, he will. Which way is he leaning?
He SAYS he’s leaning to Wisconsin, but I think it might be because he thinks it’s the better school. However, he had a GENUINE positive reaction at Penn State.
I can’t speak to Wisconsin, but I went to both UIUC and PSU and if the goal is “hands-on” I think PSU would probably be a better choice. UIUC has a great program but it is more oriented towards research and entrepreneurship, while PSU offers a more balanced approach.
I agree however, that the rankings are largely irrelevant. He should go wherever he feels he will be get the education he wants and be successful.
If his real goal is ME, then to me that is a no-brainer that UIUC is eliminated (and that is coming from a UIUC alumnus, so I certainly like the school).
Any school is going to have ample opportunity for drinking and mischief. That’s just a fact of life on your own away from your parents. If I am honest, then I’d say if he isn’t mature enough to handle that then perhaps he isn’t mature enough to handle college yet. Otherwise, you are just going to have to trust him to learn these things as he goes, I suppose. That’s part of the learning that occurs in college. It’s not just academic. Honestly, I don’t even know what you are trying to imply with your description of “stimulation”.
If he wants to do ME definitely don’t go to UIUC, transferring into the MechE department is almost impossible. That being said, UIUC is majority (or at the very least plurality) kids from Chicagoland and it definitely doesn’t seem like a culture shock coming from someone who has lived in both urban and suburban areas.
Based on everything you said, the real choice is between Psu and U Wisconsin.
Both are well recruited and known nationwide, both have a good college town (tip to Madison though), both will provide excellent facilities and opportunities, at both engineering will be tough and challenging, at both there’ll be drinking if he seeks it out, both will have plenty to keep them busy.
There’s no wrong choice here.
Some differentiators which may or may not matter…
Wisconsin is colder.
Penn State is closer to big East Coast cities.
After some big problems, Penn State is cracking down on out of control fraternities and keeping them on a tight(?)leash.
(can’t come up with more!.. … …)
Questions to ask…
Is there a substance-free floor or healthy living living learning community?
If he’s interested in Greek life: does pledging take place in the fall or spring of freshman year or fall sophomore year?
List everything that was going on near or on campus from Thursday to Sunday last week.
I mentioned Penn State’s entrance to major requirements on the other thread, but I see from ucb’s post that Wisconsin has them too so that’s a bit of a wash.
The student should understand that as far as actual content of the classes goes, the first two years are as easy as it gets. Stuff like fluids and thermo is way more mathy, involved, and difficult than intro physics or calculus. So a 3.0 or 3.2 is totally achievable (clearly, or they wouldn’t require it) but only if he buckles down and works hard. There’s your incentive to stay out of trouble – have to choose another major or school if he slacks off.
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The place is really quite a culture shock coming from NYC
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Keep in mind that culture shock works both ways sometimes. If I went to UIUC/Maidson straight out of highschool, I would have felt like I moved to the big city.
Personally I would not worry about it, everyone is making a shift from where they were before.
EE is very different from ME.
Let your Son weigh his study interest and his “fit” at each school - all his options are good choices.
Notes
4.5 years (9 semesters) is very typical nowadays to meet ABET requirements (particularly if you have few AP credits transferring in).
Department entrance requirements mean you have to be smart about your first year course selections and course load.
Don’t underestimate the amount of work necessary to get an A or B in math/science/engineering prerequisite courses.
Upper level engineering courses build on the prerequisites - you need to commit to fully learning / knowing the material for the future, not just cramming for the next test.
I was in your exact shoes 4 years ago. UIUC engineering is AWESOME. Transferring is possible, but your son has to have a decent average in his freshmen year. As for it being a culture shock for New York kids. The first thing my son told me is how much nicer/friendlier kids are at UIUC than New York. As for travel, it does take about 2.5-3 hours on a bus from Chicago airport, but that is not really a problem, if you consider how prestigious UIUC engineering is worldwide
It seems the bus transportation to/from ORD and MDW is mentioned quite a bit concerning traveling to UIUC, but there is also a regional airport, Willard.
However, those bus options may provide more frequent service to/from ORD and MDW than connecting flights to/from CMI, and may allow greater choice of airlines that fly to ORD and MDW rather than the few airlines that offer connecting flights to CMI. Best to look at all options when making travel arrangements.
