wise parents, help me decide

Parents Forum
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<p>Thank you in advance.</p>

<p>I've been accepted to several colleges of varying level. I have eliminated the ones that weren't clearly my top choices. I hope to study Financial engineering or Operations Research, but do not plan to be an engineer.</p>

<p>So I've come to 4 colleges.
Financial aid is one of major deciding point for me. Here, I only included the free money comprised of scholarship and grant. I do not plan to borrow any loans as it would be cheaper for my parents to get loans from their country.</p>

<p>CMU- 25000 free money. offering me the most money. Great program. Not one of my top choices. Never got the feel. Since they are giving me merit scholarship, I'd feel good about myself attending here.</p>

<p>U Chicago- 20000 free money. Academic and social atmosphere and the city appeal to me. Clearly my first choice. The only problem is that there's no engineering.</p>

<p>Cornell- 6000 free money. The isolated but beautiful campus makes it best place to focus and study. Too big. Heard some unpleasant things about academic atmosphere.</p>

<p>Columbia- 6000 free money. The location of the campus is both good and bad. Engineering school that is best for a person like me. Financial Engineering at undergraduate level. most prestigious to normal people.</p>

<p>They are all appealing to me, but I'm mostly torn between Columbia and Chicago. So it's Financial Engineering vs. Math, 6000 vs. 20000. The difference is 14000. Some people warn me against 100000+ debt. But I believe that it's fairly easy to pay them off after graduation. There will be many opportunities to pay them off eventually.</p>

<p>Do you think it's wise to have 65000 more debt by attending Columbia instead of Chicago? or would it be better to choose CMU for the money.</p>

<p>I know Columbia's prestige factor plays some role for me deciding, but Financial Engineering at undergraduate level interests me the most.</p>

<p>I'd appreciate any thoughtful advices. Thanks.</p>

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<p>Why do you say Chicago is your #1 if it doesn't have your prospective major? Do the things you're attracted to at Chicago outweigh your desire to major in engineering?</p>

<p>Paying off $100,000 in debt is not easy. This is especially true if your future includes graduate or professional school.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
Columbia- 6000 free money. The location of the campus is both good and bad. Engineering school that is best for a person like me. Financial Engineering at undergraduate level. most prestigious to normal people.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>normal people?</p>

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<p>I think you should do the math on paying off $100K in debt at the beginning of your career so you can make an informed choice. It may not be as easy as you think. Don't forget that once you start your career you'll also likely want to live in your own apartment/house, buy a car, travel, etc. If grad school is in the picture you need to consider that as well.</p>

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<p>The only piece of your puzzle that I know anything about, really, is the location of Columbia, which you say is "both good and bad." Since you live in another country, it must be very hard to evaluate neighborhoods. Columbia is in a neighborhood called Morningside Heights. This is next to a different neighborhood called Harlem. If you look on a map, where 125th St. and Amsterdam are is roughly the southern and western boundary of Harlem. Everything to the south and west of those streets, including Columbia U. is Morningside Heights. Often people overgeneralize because Harlem used to suffer a great deal from poverty and crime, but it is now very much on the recovery. Morningside Heights is extremely safe, including the fact that it's got its own Columbia U Security cars driving around the blocks day and night; plus the NY Police. I think you could feel very confident in the safety of Morningside Heights, plus you have the excellent city of New York available by subway and bus. Personally, I'd be thrilled to be able to live in Morningside Heights... really anwhere west of Amsterdam and south of 125th from there to the Hudson River. It's beautiful, academic, and safe. WHile no city in America is without need for alertness, the statistics in the Morningside Heights neighborhood re: crime are very very low. Mostly student housing there, too, although I don't know the costs.
I don't know the neighborhoods around UChicago.</p>

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<p>I think Chicago's neighborhood has the same trend of becoming safer. </p>

<p>Large part of loans my parents can borrow does not have interest rate.
So deciding only comes down to that 60,000 more for atttending Columbia.</p>

<p>Here come's the important factors like prestige and the major choice. Would they be significant enough to overcome the price. I'd like to think so, because apparently prestige factor is very important in Korea where I'd like to work some part of my life. I despise this overemphasis on prestige in Korea, but it just can't be changed.</p>

<p>doing the math, 100,000 can be divided into 10 years including the years in undergraduate schools. So each year, 10,000 should be payed. Overdoing summer jobs may give me 5000. Because I'm very frugal, I am fairly sure I can save at least 1000 each year. Also I can do some private tutoring which probably pays at least 30 dollars an hour.</p>

<p>This is just an estimation, but considering my frugality I believe I can manage it. If not, taking a gap year for work is always an option.</p>

<p>I plan to attend Graduate School. My parents, after asking professionals, professors, and family friends from different countries, have come to conclusion that Columbia is definitely a better choice. But I just don't want to create burden on me and my parents.</p>

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<p>As a University of Pittsburgh grad, I am most familiar with CMU. I had several friends who graduated from there, and they all loved their experiences and were able to find great jobs/graduate schools. What do you mean when you say you "never got the feel for it"?</p>

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<p>If you plan to go to grad school, you can always get the Columbia prestige at that point. And if you plan to go to grad school, you'll need money for that. </p>

<p>Just an alternative point of view: Go to Chicago and major in math, or finance, or whatever is close to financial engineering or operations research. Go to grad school to specialize in one of those.</p>

<p>There's a very good chance you'll change your mind about your major once you start taking classes. So I'd de-emphasize the availability of the undergraduate major.</p>

<p>Again, just an alternative point of view.</p>

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<p>cols - Very nice job of summarizing your choices. Still, I believe VeryHappy is correct: There is NO guarantee that you won't change your mind about your major. Take the UG major out of the equation and the choice is a no-brainer - UChicago. And as VeryHappy also points out, Columbia is still available for Grad School.</p>

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<p>Many posters here react negatively to the prestige-only factor, but overseas and in certain cultures it is ALL that matters. Therefore, I would say you have to decide which school gives you the most prestige to get the best job once you return to your homeland. I think UChicago would be right up there in international recognition with the ivies, so I would opt for it, and save the money.</p>

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<p>You are not alone in your dilemma. I've been reading CC for about half a year now, and I see repeatedly that parents in Asia have heard of the Ivy universities, MIT and the Universities of California. They are less aware of the other top quality American universities that we admire (such as UChicago). And certainly unknown are our elite Liberal Arts Colleges (such as Amherst, Williams, Swarthmore).</p>

<p>One thought is to see if any Asian students have written about this problem, to decode it for the home-team crowd (their parents, friends and future employers).</p>

<p>Another thought is that spreading around the understanding of "prestige" may not be fixable before next week. Forgive me for being what's termed a "prestige whore" on this site, but as a parent I'd rather pay more for something I'm sure of (for whatever my reasons) than pay less for what discomforts me. I always look at the differential between costs and decide if I am ready to support the differential. I also need to be able to afford what I choose, but I'll make (I think) more material compromises than some to stretch what "afford" means, because
that is my pleasure to educate. </p>

<p>If the prestige issue is that strong in Asia, such that a student will return there and find difficulty being respected or hired when competing with another who went to HYPSC, etc. then the parents might actually feel they're throwing away money to UChicago and feel unhappy for four years, as if they're buying nothing (even though Americans and experienced Asian students will assure you otherwise). </p>

<p>You happen to be asking one of the hardest questions on this site. Is the prestige differential "worth it" when we've got so many other great instiutions of higher education to offer that cost less, or here, cost YOU less.</p>

<p>I feel that if your parents feel it a huge mistake to pay for UChicago and can't get comfortable in time to feel happy about it, then sharpen your pencil and figure out what the loan differential will cost you to pay. There is an important thread here by "taxguy" in which people try to express what costs are folllowing graduation, for rent and so on. I happen to think they are very extreme in saying how much life costs, especially for the frugal such as you and my own kids, who do not insist on solo apartments or car ownership following college (buses still work, thank you). </p>

<p>If you believe a UChicago degree is worthless in your country, I disagree. BUT it is your country. </p>

<p>We're not so democratic here, either. When someone comes to a job interview with a Cornell degree, they are given greater consideration than if they have a degree from American University. I'm sorry but it's true. </p>

<pre><code>IF you determine UChicago, I can tell you that after four years in this country you will fully understand why that was a sound, correct choice but your parents might stay uncomfortable and you might be disadvantaged upon returning to Korea. Your education will be JUST AS GOOD. Both schools are extremely intellectual, urban, sophisticated, international...everything good.
</code></pre>

<p>You are ONLY dealing with the issue of perception of prestige and money.</p>

<p>The Math major, which is all the Chicago will offer you, sounds like it will
equip you to enter grad school in any financial area. Do you want to study Math for four years, versus courses in the subjects you mentioned (financial engineering...). Could you double-major (or major/minor) at UChicago in Math plus Economics, or Math + Government to help balance out your program? If not, do not worry because you'll be taking many other courses in other departments, whether or not you "double-major." So you will learn plenty. </p>

<p>Either way, you are choosing careers that will have excellent payback here if you stay. You are not asking to major in Theater or Psychology. Recently I understand a Korean-American comic said that for anyone to major in Psychology from his extended family would be like "becoming a pole dancer" which is not good at all.</p>

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<p>I have a nephew from SE Asia, his mother taught in an International (former American) School during his high school years. Eleven years ago, he graduated in business and economics from CMU with good grades and some interesting Asian friends (e.g. super wealthy friends from other countries). Since then he rose through a local (home) SE Asian bank, combining computer skills, math and business acumen including trading, to join an international (US) investment company, stationed in Singapore for a while. He then returned to his home country and married the daughter of a prominent lawyer to the national leadership. Big wedding, the lawyer's star since has fallen with the ebb of political fortunes there. Nephew is well off and doing fine anyway. </p>

<p>The most crucial part was his job in SE Asia immediately after college. Entry jobs with prospects of good visibility to ownership (management) in SE Asia can be quite difficult. That was partly the luck of his parents knowing the owners of a small family bank who were willing to look carefully at the talent and education side. The alternative would have been to take an entry level job with the international companies, which besides relatively low pay (compared to the US), can be extremely competitive and under appreciated. If you think your family has any contacts (even poor parents can have interesting friends and relatives), I would consider CMU's generous offer very seriously. </p>

<p>Also many wealthy Asian parents have discovered "price sticker" shock and the crowded Ivy admissions process. They may be reassessing their perceptions soon as to the absolute necessity of Ivy papers. An Ivy can be a good school, but may not be an automatic choice or a good fit upon close inspection, the individual needs to chose very carefully. My (half Asian) daughters go to decent liberal arts colleges (LAC). The older one could attract the early attention of an Ivy med school, as well as other high ranked ones, at almost 20 (vs age 22-24), all from a somewhat less known LAC with good financial aid and scholarships.</p>