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I see gadad provided the nickname of the Wellesley shuttle bus. And its true that the Harvard coeds tend to be both dismayed and at the same time amused by the sight of the Wellesley shuttle..
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<p>I'm trying to decide if this says more about the Wellesley women or the Harvard coeds....</p>
<p>^^^ Agree totally. You took the words virtually out of my mouth, interesteddad. I am with you, Consolation,MamaBo, Curiosisity and sybbie on all of this.</p>
<p>I went to Wellesley back in the day. Took the shuttle bus, too. Along with frequently using the T.</p>
<p>I took the shuttle bus... HELLO!.... to attend my MIT cross-registration classes, to do things in Cambridge and Boston and... yes... to meet my BF and go out for the evening/weekend/night.</p>
<p>What of it?</p>
<p>I expect more of the parent posters here. I expect more of the student posters as well. </p>
<p>Foraging for men? Some people need to get a life. Then they would not need to cast aspersions on other people just going about living theirs.</p>
<p>I haven't read what others have said but here's my two cents.
If she feels comfortable in an all girls atmosphere, I say go for it. Social comfort is a huge plus in college. Places like Holyoke are sort of know for having a large lesbian student body, but I know many girls who go there that aren't.
Also, being part of the five college group, people from mt holyoke can take classes at UMass and other coed schools if they want with no problem.</p>
<p>The year I began my Barnard studies, Columbia College went co-ed. I took as many classes as I wished at Columbia (probably a third of my courses). I lived in a co-ed dorm for three years. Columbia College students seemed a little lost in the huge university while Barnard students had closer advisors and higher standards for graduation. We spent a year working on a senior thesis while Columbia undergrads did not. Barnard's sports improved with the addition of women at Columbia College. I don't think anyone was concerned about more competition for men. How absurd! There were plenty of opportunities to socialize but most students were there because they were interested in a challenging education, not partying. I would recommend the academic and social aspects of a women's college to my daughter but I have some reservations about participating in a consortium. Now, many years later it is difficult for me to get back in touch with college friends who were not from Barnard. My yearbook, alumni magazine and network are only Barnard oriented and don't include my friends from Columbia College and the School of Engineering and Applied Science. Sometimes I wish I had attended a more self contained LAC. My daughter (rising soph) is considering Scripps but I think I'd encourage her more towards Grinnell.</p>
<p>I apologize for having insulted Wellesley and its students. I consider Wellesley to be a fine school. My daughter applied there and I would have been perfectly happy with it had she chosen to attend. I was not trying to insult anyone. I was just trying to describe the reality on the ground in Cambridge - a reality not of my making. </p>
<p>In any case, I'll stop posting on this topic before I make any further mistakes. Sorry.</p>
<p>My D just graduated with a degree in Physics from Bryn Mawr and can't think of a place for which she would have been ultimately better suited. It's funny, because the decision to apply to Bryn Mawr was spur of the moment, and only happened after she failed the medical examination for admission to The U.S. Air Force Academy. Prior to this occurring, she'd had her heart set on The Academy, it having been her dream school all during high school. When she said she wanted to apply to Bryn Mawr, I did a double take that almost gave me whiplash:D. I said, "Now let me get this straight. You would now suddenly consider an all-women's school, when only a short time ago, one that was over 90% male was your dream?" She just grinned sheepishly and shrugged.
Kids.....</p>
<p>I saw my D experience a tremendous amount of personal growth as a result of attending Bryn Mawr. She would strongly disagree with the comment about "cattiness" among the women at all women's schools. Her experience was of a close, supportive environment where there was a great deal of maturity and mutual respect. The traditions were things she came to cherish, and the academic environment was intense, but nurturing. One thing she did appreciate about living in an all female environment was the ability to count on quite and cleanliness (by and large). Little chance of encountering vomit and other bodily fluids where they shouldn't be. And yes, quiet hours were respected. It was civilized living for the most part, devoid of the kinds of behaviors for which college boys are often well known. It was available to take courses are Haverford and Swat, and she did take several at Haverford, and made a few male friends. Males were often seen on campus, in the dorms and dining halls. So it wasn't like living in a convent. Right now, she is camping at the ocean front with five of her friends from college, two of whom are male. The way D sees it, attending Bryn Mawr was like having the best of a coed school, with non of its drawbacks.</p>
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My D just graduated with a degree in Physics from Bryn Mawr
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<p>I don't think I knew that. D2 considers Bryn Mawr her "ta da" school at this point. She is blown away by their classics resources. Hopefully, you'll be open to having your brain picked??</p>
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Now, many years later it is difficult for me to get back in touch with college friends who were not from Barnard. My yearbook, alumni magazine and network are only Barnard oriented and don't include my friends from Columbia College
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This has changed radically with the advent of Facebook. For reasons known only to the creators of Facebook, there is no on-line distinction between Barnard & Columbia -- so all students are identified as being part of the Columbia network. As an outsider who has access to my d's profile as a "friend", I can click on the link to her Columbia network and see several pages of names and photos of others there, male & female... but I don't have a clue as to which of the women attend which college unless I've met them during one of my visits to the school. </p>
<p>So whereas I can see this as a problem in the past, I can also say that it is unlikely to be a problem or issue in the future. If there is one thing that Facebook does really, really well it is to enable people who meet in various contexts to keep in touch. I assume that over time Facebook will be replaced by something else, but I think the technology will tend to get even more inclusive and efficient -- so I would not worry about the contacts part.</p>
<p>The same is true of Scripps, by the way - on Facebook, they are all part of the "Claremont" network. </p>
<p>Now that I think about it, your concern may be the reason the Facebook creators decided to put closely affiliated colleges in a single network - maybe someone was smart enough to foresee exactly the problem you complain of.</p>
<p>I've got to say, I do not agree with the stereotypes about Wellesley women out and about in Cambridge. Just because the frat party these girls go to is off campus, doesn't make their actions any sketchier than the girls who chose to go to their college frats. Perhaps the Wellesley girls are more visible because they have to travel a distance to get there, but the girls at the frat, whether from Wellesley, MIT, or Harvard, all do the same things when they get to the party. Wellesley women are not unique in their frat party goals.</p>
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I don't think I knew that. D2 considers Bryn Mawr her "ta da" school at this point. She is blown away by their classics resources. Hopefully, you'll be open to having your brain picked??
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<p>Absolutely, zooser. Pick away! :p</p>
<p>"Wellesley women are not unique in their frat party goals."</p>
<p>They lose both ways. First, the charge that they are all lesbians (despite the fact that there are far, far more gay males at Harvard and, especially Yale, than lesbian women at any of the women's colleges.) Then, they are male sex-starved crazies who travel in packs to drunken frats to prey upon the Y chromosomes. (The difference I see between them at the women at the coed colleges is that the women at the coed colleges descend upon these same parties far more often.)</p>
<p>Wow! I am overwhelmed (again!) with the spectrum of insightful comments on CC! Thanks to all of you for pointing out a number of things I had not considered for D! Thanks as well for illuminating some special advantages of single gender education!</p>
<p>I am a single dad always looking for help, and so MANY of you near and far come to the rescue!</p>
<p>Blessings!</p>
<p>D just visited Bryn Mawr and is thoroughly impressed. Outstanding academics combined with a very supportive environment of women, by women, for women. Unlimited opportunities to take courses and participate in ECs at Haverford, an outstanding coed LAC just 1.5 miles away, plus transferable meals, free transportable between campuses, opportunities even to take your major or live at the other campus if that's where your academic quest takes you. Additional opportunities to take courses at Swarthmore, an outstanding coed LAC a little further afield making logistics a little more difficult, but doable. Twenty-minute train ride into Philly for social events or to take courses at Penn, and outstanding coeducational Ivy League research university.</p>
<p>So what's not to like? You're supported as a woman at Bryn Mawr in ways large and small---for example, lab benches are set for median women's heights, not men's. Your social world is not constrained to single-sex or artificially arranged encounters: you meet men in class on your campus or theirs, in extracurricularts, in your dining halls or theirs, etc. You get an outstanding education combining all the benefits of a small, close-knit LAC with the extraordinary resources of a larger consortium consisting of three top-notch LAc plus one of the nation's leading research universities. Again: what's not to like?</p>
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They lose both ways. First, the charge that they are all lesbians (despite the fact that there are far, far more gay males at Harvard and, especially Yale, than lesbian women at any of the women's colleges.) Then, they are male sex-starved crazies who travel in packs to drunken frats to prey upon the Y chromosomes.
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<p>Notice that the bellyaching about women's colleges comes from those associated with all-male schools whose Presidents have been known to say there's no place for women in science.</p>
<p>Some of you might want to consult the study about the relative achievements of graduates of women's colleges associated with a male school (Radcliffe/Harvard, Barnard/ Columbia, Pembroke/Brown, et al) to that of independent women's colleges (Wellesley, Mount Holyoke, Bryn Mawr, et al) that was done back in the late 60s or so. I distinctly recall Mattina Horner, then the president of Radcliffe, discussing it in some public forums. The study found that women from independent women's colleges significantly out-achieved the graduates of the other schools. You can draw your own conclusions as to why that was likely. </p>
<p>Obviously, societal conditions and opportunities for women have changed significantly since then. But as some of the posts on this thread vividly demonstrate, some things apparently never change. Apparently many people are still unable to deal with women who have the temerity to define themselves outside of a relationship with men. Mini has it exactly right. </p>
<p>For the record--at least when I was there, and I can't imagine it has changed--buses run between Wellesley and MIT on a regular basis all day during the week, conveying students from both institutions in both directions. I assume that there must now be some kind of arrangement with Olin also. There were always a certain number of male exchange students living on campus as well, some of whom were disappointed to discover that they were more likely to be treated like brothers than ravished every night by hordes of sex-starved women. </p>
<p>In any case, Wellesley remains a superb resource for young women who have the brains and the independence to take advantage of it. Girls looking for a lot of boys to date would be advised to look elsewhere.</p>
<p>The list of accomplished women who graduated from women's colleges is very, very long. My own class is remarkable and continues to amaze me for the breadth of contributions we've made to the world. Equally amazing are the stereotypes and prejudices that still exist, but I won't go on about that here because others have expressed my sentiments quite well. I've visited my alma mater a lot and think it's a great environment with a lot to offer. I got a first-rate education and--equally important--made lifelong friends who are like sisters to me.</p>
<p>If a women's college is on your daughter's list, both you and she should visit, read the websites thoroughly, meet young alumnae, and talk with students. (Websites especially seem to be an under-used resource among CC students. So many students ask simple questions that are answered there.) Just like any college or university, some young women will find them a good fit, and others won't. Please, just don't allow biases and misinformation to be part of the decisionmaking process.</p>
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They lose both ways. First, the charge that they are all lesbians (despite the fact that there are far, far more gay males at Harvard and, especially Yale, than lesbian women at any of the women's colleges.)
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<p>mini, what are your sources for these statements? I was not aware that gender orientation statistics are collected by college admissions offices.</p>
<p>Smith did a student survey two years covering more than 50% of the student population, and found that 11% of the student body called themselves "lesbians". Yale did a student survey around four years ago (it may have been five), and found that 29% of male students considered themselves "gay" (much smaller sample size, as I remember). This is not at all surprising, as the percentage of gay males in the population generally speaking is two to three times the number of lesbians (CDC surveys finds bisexuality far more common among women.) It is not surprising at Yale, given that they have by far the largest and best funded lesbian/gay studies program in the country.</p>
<p>I see this as a plus, not a minus. It is terrific that there are places where everyone can feel comfortable.</p>
<p>Based on studies undertaken by just two schools about their own populations (neither of which is Harvard), you feel justified in making the sweeping generalization that there are more gay males at Harvard and Yale "than lesbian women at any of the women's colleges." That is quite a stretch.</p>
<p>Considering some of the other sweeping generalizations that have been made in this thread on no evidence at all other than "someone I know said X," I find it surprising that you choose this to quibble about.</p>
<p>BTW, my own sister told me two days ago that she "heard" that lesbians are a majority at Wellesley. I told her that Yale is known as "the gay Ivy" and that the word is "one in four and maybe more." Since Y is her #1 choice for her D, this caused her to quickly back off...and perhaps more importantly, to put such "someone told me" crap in perspective.</p>
<p>Oh, and btw, I am not even slightly homophobic, and have spent enormous amounts of volunteer time working on gay rights campaigns locally AND my S's godparents are a gay couple. So like Mini, I am happy that there are places where gay students can feel accepted and flourish.</p>