Words of Advice to All Class of 2015 Hopefuls...

Colleges and Universities A-Z Stanford University
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<p>Having been accepted to Stanford last year, and choosing to attend Stanford this year, I figured it might be beneficial if you all had the privilege of insight I was not privy to at the start of my college application experience and strongly wish I had. The irony of experience is that you come to know things after they're useful to you, so the best I can do is to pass that knowledge along to those who could use it. As you can see, I have very few posts on College Confidential, as I deliberately stayed off this site when I was picking out, applying to, and eventually receiving decisions from various colleges. Here’s the first piece of advice I’ll give you:</p>

<p>Relax. The college application process is admittedly stressful, and so it is best not to make it more stressful than it needs to be. Don’t bombard yourself with arbitrary deadlines or try to force your essays in any way. Good essays and good applications don’t come from force; they come, frankly, from having inspiration and being in the right mood. Statistically speaking, the best employees are those who are given the most autonomy in their work environment. Don’t let your parents breathe down your neck, and don’t breathe down your own neck over the work you have to do. The fact of the matter is that if you’re a high-stress, no-relaxation type of person, Stanford is probably not going to be a good academic environment for you. </p>

<p>Secondly, on stress, if you’re applying to Stanford, the chances are that, whether or not you get in, you have a fantastically bright future ahead of you. Most people don’t look at the numbers and College Confidential skews our perception of what is acceptable and what is average. Let me break this down for you: An average score on the SAT is a 1500. Fifty percent of the nation scores higher and fifty percent scores lower. For every 2200 on the SAT, someone else scores an 800. An 1800 places you above the 84th percentile. A 2200 is in the top one percent. Now, let’s look at something else. There are over 2,600 four-year colleges and universities in the United States. You are applying to, arguably, the best college in that bunch. Even that opportunity is something you should be thankful for. Consider moreover that only one-third of this nation ever gets a bachelor’s degree. Now, let’s say you don’t get in. You have every right to be disappointed. That said, you have no right to feel like you’ve failed. If you end up at one of the top 100 universities or top 100 liberal arts colleges in the United States, you’ve already done far better than most people out there, and you will have fantastic career opportunities awaiting you.</p>

<p>Now, here’s the second official “point” (that first one was a two-parter): Have conversations with people. A lot. It does not have to be about college, and probably shouldn’t be—the important thing is to get yourself talking and get yourself thinking. Discuss anything you may be passionate about, anything that may possibly spark your interest. Go to the library, find a random subject, and start reading about it. Go on Wikipedia and look at articles on random subjects—Byzantine history, quantum mechanics, modernist literature, classical warfare and tactics—it doesn’t matter. The important thing is that you will eventually (or very quickly) find something you are interested in. Be open-minded about it. Start having conversations about these ideas, find interesting people, and bounce your ideas off of them. Approach them in conversation as you would a member of an admissions committee. You don’t need to talk about who you are. You should instead talk about what interests you—what serves as the primer for your intellectual curiosity. In one of my Stanford essays, I talked about video games, how I love to play them and how I love to write them. It did not bother me that a Stanford admissions committee member might scoff at an applicant who plays video games profusely, because I can and have talk(ed) about them for hours. Don’t be embarrassed by who you are or what your interests are. Go back to that kindergarten proverb: honesty is the best policy.</p>

<p>Thirdly, don’t freak out over your numbers. Stop trying to gauge your probability of acceptance based on your SAT scores or GPA. GPA is variable by school, by teacher, and by more factors. I got twelve Bs in high school, including a B-, and I still got in. The fact of the matter is that, once you reach a certain threshold, your chance of getting in breaks down to other factors. Yes, it is important to get good grades and have high SAT scores, but at a certain point, you’re academically qualified to attend Stanford (or whatever other schools you may be looking at), and they base your acceptance on whether or not you’d make a good addition and good contribution to their college community. If you have a 2300 on the SAT, that’s more than good enough, period. You should congratulate yourself on being extremely intelligent and move on to other things.</p>

<p>Fourthly, don’t even think about making stuff up about yourself. They actually do check, and if they find out that you’re lying on your application, every college you applied to will be notified, and you will not go to college. </p>

<p>Fifthly, my word of caution would be not to share your essay ideas on College Confidential. There are viciously competitive people on this site, and they will steal your ideas. If you want essay critiquing, talk to a teacher, a friend, a local university professor, a parent, or someone you know has no stake in your not-getting-in. The good thing is that the kind of people who would steal your ideas are easy for an admissions officer to spot, and based on my experience meeting my classmates so far, those who get in tend to actually be very friendly, rather non-hyper-competitive people. If your attitude is to step on others to get where you want to go, my guess would be that the greater Stanford community does not want you there.</p>

<p>Sixthly, should you be admitted to Stanford or some other fantastic institution, do not be in-your-face about it. Believe it or not, if most College Confidential users were to behave in real life as they would on College Confidential, they would likely have very few friends. No one wants to hear about how awesome everything is now that you’re accepted after you wouldn’t shut up for months about how worried you were. You aren’t being normal; you’re being insensitive and callous. Most people will never have the opportunity to attend a school as good as Stanford, and they frankly don’t want to hear you talk about it so much. Every one of my close friends who applied to Stanford was rejected, and I never brought the subject up out of respect for them. I never wore a Stanford shirt at school, as there was at least one person in every class I was in who was rejected from Stanford. The most well-respected and well-loved people out there are those who show respect back, not those who try to grab attention at every possible interval.</p>

<p>Seventhly and finally, have a good time. I know it’s clichéd to say, but it’s your senior year and you should enjoy it. Study what you want to study and play how you want to play. I would strongly suggest that you take the most rigorous classes possible, if you have not already elected to do so. However, if you really want to prepare yourself for college, have academic interests outside of your schoolwork. In fact, the vast majority of what you learn should be learned outside of school. That’s a sign of intellectual curiosity. As an example, I try to read about five Wikipedia articles a day (I know what academia says about Wikipedia and it’s bullhonky), and for that, I’ve learned better how to learn. I can have conversations with people on a wide variety of subjects, and I enjoy that greatly. That’s the kind of intellectual attitude that top universities want to see—that you would willingly let your grades slip a bit if it meant you could learn far more elsewhere. Colleges want the students that want to learn because they can learn, not because it will get them good grades. If you approach intellectual curiosity in that manner, your honesty in your application will shine through and you will be a happier, more thoroughly enjoyed person overall.</p>

<p>If you have questions, I might answer them, but again I don’t frequent this site very often. I just felt this was a good way to help you all out. I’ll try to be solid about answering any questions you may have, however…within reason.</p>

<p>Thanks,
Tony</p>

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<p>

Completely agree. In fact, just two days ago, I suddenly woke up and had a great essay inspiration (which I won’t share, heeding your advice). Got up, took out a notepad, and wrote it. I’m thinking of placing it as my main essay.</p>

<p>

While that’s true, it’s really a moot point. People are always striving to be better, and “done far better” is an extremely relative term. We’re doing better than most people since we have enough food and water. And college is not just about getting a great carrier. It’s undoubtedly one of the best 4 years of your life. You want to enjoy it with people you like in a college you like.</p>

<p>

These are the sample people who excessively ask to be chanced.</p>

<p>Thanks for all these advices. Do you have any advice for application in general? For example: when should you write you essay? which AP grades to report… etc?</p>

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<p>If I had to give one piece of advice regarding the application, it is this: Stanford does not look for the same kinds of people as do Harvard, Yale, Princeton, CalTech, MIT, UChicago, etc. Stanford really likes kids who are entrepreneurial, not only in the business sense, but also in the sense that Stanford likes students who go out and do something awesome, even if it won’t qualify them for an award.</p>

<p>When thinking about when to write your essay, it really depends. Sometimes essay ideas come spur of the moment and sometimes they are carefully planned. Give yourself enough time to review it and have others review it, but, in my case, mine were written spur of the moment stream-of-consciousness in mid-November. I hardly had to do any editing. I know other methods that worked, but that worked for me.</p>

<p>As far as WHAT to write in your essay, the awful truth is that it really depends. I can give you the standard advice of making sure your essay catches the admissions officer and makes them want to keep reading. Don’t use overly large words. “Intelligent” words are always a plus when used correctly and in moderation, but you don’t want to burden your essay with lots of physically long words and a lack of accessibility. Make sure your essay flows properly, and it is essential that you read your essays to yourself out loud. Stanford’s a rather unconventional institution, especially in comparison with the Ivy League. Being unconventional in your essays, so long as it has a point and is truthful, cannot hurt you.</p>

<p>When it comes to which AP scores to report, if you’ve gotten 3s or above on all of them, I suggest reporting all of them. Again, honesty is the best policy. If you’ve taken the AP class, the admissions officer will know you’ve taken the exam and would probably appreciate you being honest or open about your exam scores. That said, if you have anything below a 3, and you are not comfortable reporting it, you probably don’t want to report any 3s you have either. If you report 3s but not 2s, then the admissions officer will know you got a 2 nonetheless. Again, in almost all cases, honesty is without a doubt the best policy.</p>

<p>If I had to say anything else for the moment, it’s that college admissions are a crapshoot. I know people who got in to Stanford who I can guarantee you had “less impressive” applications that people I know who were rejected. I know two kids who got into Harvard, Yale, and Princeton, yet were rejected from Stanford flat out. I also know people who have done the reverse.</p>

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<p>Good advice! Thanks very much!</p>

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<p>This post should be stickied. It’s probably the most honest advice I’ve seen on this forum in a while and it’s definitely extremely helpful. After spending a month doing a program at Stanford in the summer and talking to current/former students, I can easily see where you’re coming from. Everything you’ve said rings perfectly true for everyone of them. It’s also the reason why I’d love to go to Stanford. I value my academics but I feel like I’m generally a fairly laid-back person when it comes to life (hopefully that’s a good thing :)). Thanks for the excellent advice and I know I’ll be taking it into consideration when looking at this whole process.</p>

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<p>Instead of an FAQ, people can just read this!</p>

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<p>I certainly have to agree with RookandBishop over everything that was said in his first post. Especially about the GPA/SAT/Numbers issue. While it is in your best interest to try to get the reasonably highest score/GPA possible, don’t analyze over what can’t be changed. Like RookandBishop, I also received multiple B’s throughout high school.</p>

<p>Furthermore, once you send in your application, try and stop stressing too much. You’re pretty much done! Try and enjoy high school, both in your extracurriculars as well as in the social aspects of high school life. Go to Homecoming, Prom, attend fundraisers, football games.</p>

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<p>How honest and true-- don’t frequent this site very often.</p>

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<p>After watching several recent cycles of admissions into Stanford, I am quite disenchanted with them. I have noticed that every one of the people I know who have been admitted were NOT at the top of their class–not even really that close. All were non-Caucasian (Stanford makes a point of letting others know that admitting a multicultural class is their top priority–their choice, but if these people aren’t at the top of their class, it doesn’t do much for advancing the cause). Some of the applicants knew people in admissions, and some had done some really interesting projects (or, in all honesty, their parents had done some interesting projects for them). </p>

<p>I am really disappointed in Stanford. I just don’t think that they are the college they used to be. Their admittance policy encourages racism, brings in academically lower students, and encourages parents to work the system for their kids. For the top students, look to Berkeley or another school that still admits the best and the brightest based on GPA and test scores.</p>

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<p>Hey, Stanford Hopefuls–just chiming in to say that I know lots and lots of academic stars who have been admitted to Stanford over the past several years and are attending Stanford. And some of them are even Caucasian. ; ) </p>

<p>After every admissions cycle, you’ll find disgruntled parents and applicants (but mostly parents, it seems) on the HYPMS threads bemoaning how hooked candidates “took the spots” from the “top students” at their particular schools. Because they are disappointed that their students didn’t make it in, they begin to disparage the school(s) that didn’t accept those students and to make sweeping statements about the admissions process that are inconsistent with the facts. The facts are these: all of the top schools vie for the academic stars, and all of them also admit hooked candidates (URM, first-generation-to-college, recruitable atheletes, outstanding artists, development cases) whose stats tend to cluster in the colleges’ lower quartiles. If a particular student with high stats isn’t admitted, it’s not because one of the hooked candidates “took his spot”, it’s because the admissions committees found other academic stars more compelling for one reason or another, or simply ran out of space in the class.</p>

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<p>out of the first 10 people i could think of in the class of 2014 that i know, 4 are caucasian valedictorians. </p>

<p>i completely agree with zenkoan.</p>

<p>there is a group of people who believe that GPA and test scores are the best determinant of a good applicant, and it simply is not true. stanford, above many of its peers, makes sure that it has very holistic admission policies that NOT ONLY consider GPA and test scores, but also the applicant’s background, ECs, personality, life experiences, etc. that, for me, is the #1 reason i love stanford. personally, i was in the top 1% and had 2300+ SAT, but i don’t think that’s the reason i got in. i think i got in because i did what i loved in high school and took an active role in my community.</p>

<p>and by the way, berkeley has a lower percentage of caucasian students than stanford…</p>

<p>EducationJunkie is the best example of a ■■■■■ on CC :)</p>

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<p>First, I am not a disgruntled relative. As I said, I have been watching the admissions cycles as an outsider and have been quite surprised. Much of what I said can be verified through either what the Stanford admissions staff is saying at sessions with high school counselors or by looking at average SAT scores and GPAs. Many people I know have this information but are not sharing it widely–I can only assume that the are afraid that others will accuse them of sharing it for personal reasons.</p>

<p>Stanford has changed their standards. I do not bemoan them this–they have the right to do what they want. However, I feel their behavior reinforces racism and this concerns me.</p>

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<p>Although I would not begrudge choosing applicants for reasons other than GPA and test scores, I would say that those I am aware of who were chosen were significantly below the top at their class. In several cases, they stood out for no other reason than they knew people in admissions, had parent(s) who used to be professors, or had a parent who worked on a really cool project (one kid was willing to admit it himself that he had not been the instigator behind his project). Clearly, if Stanford is trying to look at admissions differently, they are making some mistakes and are becoming known for these mistakes. </p>

<p>In terms of Berkeley’s racial mix, they are looking for the best and the brightest. They take the top applicants in their pool. </p>

<p>I can understand why two people who made it into Stanford would want to justify their school’s choices and marginalize the voice of an outsider who questions their school’s admissions decisions. I think that having some knowledge might help people who are applying for and have their hopes pinned on Stanford.</p>

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<p>I understand why you would believe what you believe. yes, stanford’s admission policies have changed over the years, but it is because GPA, test scores, and rank simply aren’t accurate predictors of student success ALONE. Today, there are many other factors that contribute. Many people think it is unfair that first-generation college students and minorities have preference in the process, but maybe students from disadvantaged backgrounds at top institutions will put in extra effort. who knows what the reasoning is, but almost all of the top institutions in the country have similar policies. For example, at Princeton, dozens of children of Princeton faculty are admitted every year from NJ, even though they may not be as qualified as other applicants. However, in that group, there are also children of faculty who are extremely qualified. It is easy to point out a few examples, but you have to look at the whole picture.</p>

<p>Many people will see that some students who are considered below Stanford-level academically qualified, whatever that may mean, are admitted, but hundreds more are just as qualified or more qualified than the students admitted by the Ivies, Berkeley, and other peer institutions. Many of the seemingly “unqualified” admitted students might not be top 1 or 5%, but they are very qualified with other talents/skills. for example, many of the recruited athletes have GPA and SAT/ACT scores (and their rank) well below average for Stanford (if those 3 criteria are important), but they might be the best in the country at their sport. However, dozens more of the Stanford athletes are not only some of the best in the country but also among the top of their class. Because Stanford is such a strong athletic school (maybe not with the money making sports), it has a strong recruiting program that has close ties with Admissions. Do I agree with it? Not entirely, but it does help to have a more balanced student body, so I understand why they would want to have such policies.</p>

<p>92% of admitted students are in the top 10% of their class. yes, the number is higher at berkeley, but i am willing to say that the academic qualifications are not necessarily better at berkeley. There are also more applicants applying from extremely competitive private prep schools to Stanford than Berkeley. so top 30-40% MAY (i’m not saying for sure) be comparable to top 10% at an average public school. </p>

<p>Also, there is a reason that dozens of Berkeley students still try to transfer to Stanford every year. Both are great schools, but Stanford tries to focus on the overall experience of the student moreso than Berkeley because it has the money and background to do so. (In addition, Berkeley, simply by being a public institution has more pressure to follow rank, GPA, and test scores than private institutions do)</p>

<p>I understand what your point is, and yes, Stanford admissions does seem to be more arbitrary and less academics-centered than other institutions. For many people at Stanford, it is a plus. For others, it is a reason to choose a different school. However, I don’t think it is a fair statement to say that Stanford is not “looking for the best and the brightest” while Berkeley is. I think the two schools have different criteria for what constitutes the best and the brightest.</p>

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<p>Well put, NJDS. Incidentally, “Education Junkie”, who has a grand total of 3 posts, appears to be an adult who repeatedly changes her screen name in violation of this forum’s policy. She does this so she can make the same claims over and over while appearing to be different people. It’s getting very tiresome. (I’ve noticed that there are people like this on several of the top college forums–I guess it comes with the territory. ; ) )</p>

<p>Stanford Hopefuls, I’d suggest you use the Common Data Set if you are looking for actual information about the relationship between students’ stats and admissions. And I will share this: I am a grad of one of the country’s top private high schools. For decades, Stanford has offered admission to large numbers of top-ranking students from our school and our peer schools, and many have chosen to matriculate at Stanford over HYPM and other great colleges. If anything, Stanford has been admitting larger numbers of these best and brightest (by numerical and other standards) in recent years.</p>

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<p>@EducationJunkie</p>

<p>Unfortunatley, I feel like you believe that all “arbitrary” factors not related to GPA, test scores and class rank are inherently legacy based or are for multicultural reasons. It seems you discount many of the other “arbitrary” factors. What about the student who diverted time away from studying for the SAT/ACT and AP classes to run his/her successful buisness or prepare for the math Olympics or compete at national level Speech and Debate? Your analysis of the surface-level qualifications of recent Stanford admits discounts essentially all of the other impressive feats these students likely have performed. I believe that many of these students under your scrutiny could very easily have gotten 2400/36 scores and become top of their class, if, say, they spent the 3 hours a day studying for those tests instead of being at soccer or debate practice instead.</p>

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<p>Okay, so I’m a “Stanford Hopeful” for this coming fall. I log onto these forums and see the same attitude all the time. “Oh, Stanford’s Admissions Committee is rigged; they only accept the best and brightest - but wait, my S, D, or I fell into that generalization, so why wasn’t I/weren’t they accepted?” Blah blah blah. This is becoming excruciatingly tiresome to read day after day. Here’s a quick fact about me. I don’t consider myself one of the “best and the brightest” - I’m far from it in terms of GPA/SAT scores/ranking. Do I care? There’s something to be said if you’re on these forums, complaining about not being accepted or your child being rejected. What does this say about you or them? I don’t mean to offend or anything of the sort, but Stanford seems to have a strong desire for future students who have the “perfect” personality, who I assume would not react in this harsh, let alone ungrateful, manner. Of course, I have yet to be accepted/rejected. In fact, while I don’t like to make uninformed assumptions, I will admit that my chances at being accepted are extremely slim. I have a sensitive personality, but I am willing myself right now and making myself promise that, for the greater good, I will not complain when I am rejected. I’ll simply accept it. There are schools that are just as fine as Stanford, prestigious or not. It’s pointless to complain afterwards. You’ll just be wasting time that could better be used elsewhere.</p>

<p>On a side note, I would not like to be criticized for saying “[…] I will not complain when I am rejected.” This comment does not mean that I will not be hurt by rejection; I will be, just as anyone else (or most). Stanford is my dream not for its ranking in the country, but for what it offers.</p>

<p>PS: Sorry for the long post. My apologies.</p>

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<p>Nothing wrong with being well-rounded nowadays. Pure academics don’t precisely indicate success.</p>

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<p>If you guys don’t mind, I’m going to intercede and give you my two cents on the whole “watering down of the admissions process” idea. First, remember that Stanford University, like most top universities, is a private institution and can admit and reject whoever they want to. It’s their right. Can you get upset about it? Sure, but I think some of the accusations here with regard to that have been a little ridiculous and some things need clarification.</p>

<p>First off, I applied to Stanford as well as a number of UCs. The UC admissions process is, correctly stated, more solely focused on test scores and academic record (both grades and rigor of the curriculum). That said, that does not necessarily mean that UC Berkeley or any other school that operates their admissions process on that basis will have smarter or more qualified students. In fact, I heard somewhere that UCSD (I think) got into trouble a few years ago when it was revealed that they marginalized applications down to a point value, with a cut-off value below which applicants were rejected. For your information, the algorithm they used included not only GPA and test scores, but also race, income bracket, and legacy status. That goes beyond the “considered” level of most institutions, and if UCSD was practicing it, it wouldn’t shock me if Berkeley wasn’t far off (no offense to Berkeley, though…it is a great institution in its own right). That all said, I was at a “send-off party” for incoming Stanford freshmen a few days ago. Most of the kids there were white, and I live in an area that’s somewhat diverse. When I was at Admit Weekend, we listened to a speech in which we were listed off some of the accomplishments of accepted students. It was humbling, to say the least. </p>

<p>Have I heard stories of kids who contrived projects to get them into Stanford? Yes, I have. I’ve also heard that applicants have done that for Harvard, MIT, CalTech, Yale, Princeton, Carnegie Mellon, Georgetown, and even Berkeley, among others.</p>

<p>It’s certainly fair to question my bias, as I will be very happily attending Stanford in a couple of weeks, but I also think it’s unfair to single out the Stanford admissions process on accusations of catering to diversity. Personally, I don’t like the practice, and I think admissions processes should be meritocratic, but I also realize that formulaic standards don’t necessarily imply meritocratic standards, and the “holistic application review” is, at least in my opinion, a better system to use for building a solid student body than a numbers game.</p>

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<p>Well I just want to ask RookandBishop a question, not particularly regarding this thread: Does Stanford offer the PPE major, or is it a self-designed one? I read it in several posts, including yours, but didn’t see it listed on their website. </p>

<p>Thanks and sorry for the interrupting the heated debate.</p>