<p>^^
I wish # 3 was possible. I feel like I'm always doing work, unless I'm reading the posts on this website.</p>
<p>Laylah's advice is excellent ... in addition, I would add, when it comes time to pick a major if possible pick something you are drawn to ... I spent a lot of time on schoolwork while in college but I was there to learn and I LOVED my major and enjoyed probably 75% of the "work" assigned in my major ... while doing schoolwork would not be my first choice of things to do at college I enjoyed my major enough that it topped TV or computer games or tons of other "fun" things.</p>
<p>It is really all about time management. I know my kid works every single day and night on her schoolwork, weekends included. I think the other kids at her school do as well. But they all seem to also fit in EC endeavors. She has done more social things per week than I think she did in six months in high school. It is a balancing act but they seem to prioritize that schoolwork is important (they also pick their classes and are therefore interested in them); they are all active and not simply academics, and they seem to value friendships and social things. They just figure a way out to block it all into their lives. Maybe if you have social plans on a Thursday night or weekend night, you then make sure you do a block of schoolwork so that you can afford time to go out later that night. If you are on a sports team and are away from school for a few days, bring work along and make yourself do it at night. You have to have self discipline and develop time management and planning out, be organized, don't get behind, be motivated. </p>
<p>Kissy...to answer you...yes, my D is thrilled beyond her wildest expectations in her college sport right now. She was happy just to be able to particpate on the team. Her team is mostly made up of kids who attended full time ski academies for high school, which is a much different kind of athlete than her background, quite elite level. While she has done this sport her whole life, she would never expect to be able to be competitive with them. But she has worked hard, gotten great coaching and loves her team and has not only been put in every race but has done quite well and much better than she ever dreamed. While she was happy just to participate, it has gone well beyond that. Her team just won their division for the season. Two of the top girls got injured (sadly enough, plus I was standing with one of their parents when it happened) and are out the season. The team has lots of depth to compensate and my D is being seeded higher than she imagined due to how it has gone for her. She never expectedt to be one of the kids representing the team at the Eastern Championships but now she is. Their team has very good odds of going to the Nationals and now I think there is a good chance that she might be one of the kids that could go even though she never dreamt that possible. It has been a lot of fun with some great girls and boys. I am amazed as I have traveled to many races, how many parents from all over have also done so. It feels like high school again, with parents on the side lines (or on the slopes as the case may be) which I just never expected. The parents all coordinate bringing all the food for a huge lunch spread for the kids, and it has been really nice. My daughter has never skied out west and if she goes, she will be very excited and in fact, I should tell DrDrewsmom....it is out in her neck of the mountains. The only thing is my D's concern about missing classes as she is someone who hates to miss. I know she will be fine but it is added pressures to miss class and all the time she normally would spend on schoolwork. But all the kids are like her in this way and they all care about it and thus find a way to fit it in. </p>
<p>Susan</p>
<p>Regarding my post, 3togo stated, "I totally agree with the advice about using the morning to dinner time as fully as possible. However the idea about the amount of free time on weekends and weeknights does not ring true for me". </p>
<p>An article in the Journal of College Student Development stated: "A commonly used quantitative measure of effort is amount of time devoted to a task, in this case academics. K.W. Light (1991) suggested that Harvard freshmen averaged 40 hours per week on academics although Light and Wais (1999) found that a sample of 70 Stanford University freshmen averaged 46 hours per week on academics. Pappalardo's (1986) survey of 183 students at Cornell University revealed that they averaged 49.6 hours in class and studying. Pace (1990) noted that most students spend 40 hours per week on academics." The authors considered academic time to be class time+study time.</p>
<p>If the student maximizes his time between 9am and 5pm every weekday, devotes 5 hours Sunday afternoon and a few evenings to study, he will have tallied about 50 hours of academic time per week. This is well in line with the studies of what Harvard, Stanford and Cornell students devote to academics in a typical week. </p>
<p>However I have observed that few students maximize their 9 to 5 schedule and thus devote time in the evenings for study. That's fine. However, if a student's academic time is typically more than 60 hours a week, something is wrong. Either the student is having difficulty using study time effectively, is truly overwhelmed with the work or some other unusual reason. </p>
<p>I have been a college prof for many years and can assure you that the perception that students typically spend day and nite, six or seven days a week on academics is a myth! Certainly finals period is an exception. And all students will encounter the occasional "hell" week, when facing a few projects, papers or midterm exams. But those spending 5 or more hours each evening studying are usually doing it by choice not out of necessity. </p>
<p>If your student is stressing over the sheer hours of work he is encountering, i would offer the following recommendations. 1) commit to the 9am-5pm period and do this by trying to schedule a 9am class as many days as possible. 2) do NOT go back to the dorm during the day. There are too many distractions there and the lure of a nap is oftentimes too enticing. 3) Work out a written schedule and stick to it. 4) find a place on campus that is ideally suited for study. It may be the library but most campuses have many other places too. I often found empty classrooms were ideal-quiet, not too comfortable and with lots of room to spread out notes and books. My son has found a lounge in the Carnegie Building which is lightly used. 5) do not study more than 50 minutes straight w/o a break. 6) whenever possibly spend a hour studying a subject immediately following the class or as soon a possible thereafter. I always rewrote my class noted during this period, adding additional information which I had either not written down or recalled reading. The Cornell Note-Taking System is an excellent one to use. 7) since you are on campus, its easy to seek out extra help from professors during their office hours. Keep them posted in your notebook. 8) form study groups, they can be both fun and helpful. I was in one that assembled in the lecture room immediately following our Physics II lecture. The prof was always willing to sit in with us for a while. On the last day of lecture, we snuck in a six pack of Stroh's with some snacks and had an little party with him. 9) make use of class or college resources. Most now have writing and math assistance centers. Rensselaer also has extra evening study sessions for most intro math, science and engineering courses. His Physics I class has a 2 hour block every Tuesday evening for Q&A except on midterm day when it is the exam period for all studio sections, which BTW is tonite! 10) keep ahead of reading assignments. It will help you enormously during class. 11) start research papers and projects immediately, spread the work out and plan on finishing at least two days before it is due.</p>
<p>originaloog, EXCELLENT advice. I am printing this for my D.</p>
<p>I have not heard of the Cornell System-- but the other day, my Mom (who was the valedictorian of her class at a UC) told me her "method" was to distill her notes: first, re-reading & underlining her notes, then taking a second set of notes on her notes. She did the first re-read/underline session immediately, the same day she'd taken the class notes. </p>
<p>Sounds similar to your system. Hers was based on the # of times something must be read, written, heard before it is committed to memory.</p>
<p>Originaloog:</p>
<p>Good post. Unlike the OP, my S thinks that college will be less work than high school. This is his calculation:
6 hours of class per day, 5 days a week = 30 hours.
2 hours of homework per day, 5 days a week = 10 hours.
2 college classes = 10 hours (counting sections and study groups)
homework for college classes: 10 hours
Total number of study hours: 60.</p>
<p>Bring on the 46 hour-week.</p>
<p>Good link to Cornell Note-Taking System. Enjoy!</p>
<p>Marite...that is exactly my thinking too. I know college is a lot of work. But we always figured she would have more time to do it because they go to class so many less hours. If anything, it seems easier to fit in the schoolwork. Certainly not harder to find the hours.</p>
<p>Originaloog ... we're pretty close ... I'm a Cornell guy and the study showed 49.6 hours for a Cornell kid. The time I outlined (allowing for lunch time) comes out to about 55 hours a week ... we're in the same range. I agree the overall issue is one of time management (I did better scheduling my time while on a sports team ... it forced my study schedule) ... and as I mentioned I loved the freedom in college to schedule when to study and when not to.</p>
<p>I am a Cornell alum too, as a grad student many years ago. You said you were a varsity athlete. Any chance it was golf?? The University golf course is a very nice RTJ design that I played many times as a student and usually try to get on during visits to Ithaca.</p>
<p><a href="who%20was%20the%20valedictorian%20of%20her%20class%20at%20a%20UC">quote</a> told me her "method" was to distill her notes: first, re-reading & underlining her notes, then taking a second set of notes on her notes
[/quote]
Very interesting. This was also my approach back in the day and I ended up #4 in my class at Wellesley. In fact, at exam time, I usually distilled yet again until I had 1 or 2 pages total.</p>
<p>Also followed one of the tips in originaloog's post - always gave msyelf a 10-15 minute break every hour of study. I think it made me more productive and focused. FWIW.</p>
<p>let me add up my hours for school this week (projected for the whole week)</p>
<p>Time In Class = 10 Hours
Time at work = 10 Hours
Time with Clubs = 7 Hours
Time in Group Meetings = 7 Hours
Time Studying = 15 Hours
Time doing homework/researching = 20 Hours</p>
<p>For a grand total of about 62 hours per week spent on school/work.. Sounds about right.. but then again my 10 hours of work are in there, and i dont normally spend 7 hours with a club, normally just one per week.</p>
<p>I leave on Saturday for my Spring Break trip.</p>
<p>fendergirl - are the 15 hours for group meetings study groups or academic-related? or something else?</p>
<p>each of my classes this semester has a big semester long group project, so we have various meetings throughout the week to work on our projects. </p>
<p>in my policy course we work with a team and our team is "creating" a murder/suicide clean up business.. it's the talk of the department. apparently noone has done anything that "out there" before. So we have to get together to discuss everything about "creating" this business.. it's as if we were really going to start it (yet not for real).. so TONS of work goes into it, and we meet for a few hours a week to go over stuff for that. our marketing plan is due shortly, so we'll be having a lot of meetings coming up and doing a lot of marketing research in the next week or so... finalized product of this project is normally a hundred pages or so.</p>
<p>in my business systems class we have a semester long case study where we work with a team to do some analysis and design of how to change things around in this company. it's a lot of work as we need to come up with lots of fully researched alternatives and whatnot... finalized product is normally a hundred pages or so.</p>
<p>in my web development class we have programming assignments and whatnot that we are 'encouraged' to work with each other on, as there is a lot of work and it helps to have someone there to help when it gets hard. i have about 15 programs for that due thursady... so sometimes i get together with friends to work on that homework.</p>
<p>in my human systems course, every day during class we get with our group in class and basically do different case studies and activities with them, rather than sitting around and hearing a lecture. it's kind of nice because it's more interactive and you get to know everyone in your course. you then have a paper at the end of the semester about your experiences throughout the semester in the group. (i dont count this in with group meetings as it is during class)</p>
<p>I usually include study groups in with studying, because I normally do study in study groups. It's great to be able to poll the group for the answer to a question, rather than searching to look it up. i had this one really hard course last year that barely anyone get's a's in.. and of my group 2 of us got a's and the rest got c's.. there was only 4 a's given out the entire year to all sections, so our study group really helped us out a lot.</p>
<p>i really do spend a lot of time on my school work, but you have to keep in mind these are all senior level courses that are based on projects and not lectures, so thats to be expected ;) (which is why i only took 12 credits this semester!)</p>
<p>Socksrule, I tend to agree that if you get admitted the college wants to keep you and there are mechanisms in place to make sure you don't slide too far off track. My son's freshman year experience was stressful mostly because of his poor time management skills. A year later and half way through his sophomore year he has (I think and hope) finally understood that procrastinating is more stressful than diving in. This is something that everyone needs to learn for him/herself and admittedly some never do, but if you have reasonably solid study skills and if you take advantage of the help available, you'll be fine even at a highly selective school.</p>
<p>Professors at LACs tend to be more accessible to students who are overwhelmed or bewildered by workload or assignments than professors might be at large universities. At selective colleges no one is going to check to see that you've started your paper, but they will at least talk or e-mail you with answers to the questions that you've encountered enroute. My son even had one professor who bounced a paper back to him for a re-do. Said he (the professor) must share the blame if the assignment wasn't clearly understood. He explained in detail what he was looking for and extended the deadline.</p>
<p>It's difficult to quantify the workload at an individual school, but for sure, many, many kids balance an active social life with their academics and most schools encourage this. There must be kids at every school who do nothing but study, but even at super rigorous schools, like Swarthmore and CMU, outside activities are highly encouraged and very common. </p>
<p>My advice to you is don't worry so much about work load. Unless you are dedicated to getting straight A's (and some kids are) you'll most likely find a way to balance your studies and real life. Apply to a good range of reach and match schools. Have one or two safeties that you feel good about. Visit as many as you can. Overnight at the top one or two after you get your acceptances. When you do visit, ask the kids what they do about stress. At my son's LAC which I think is probably similar to most selective LACs, the kids get a lot of physical exercise, support each other emotionally, reach out to their instructors for help, try to eat well, sleep enough, seek diversion in silly and fun activities, like watching TV serials enmasse or sledding. When there's a strong sense of camaraderie -- which there is at most LACs -- you have a same boat mentality which really helps put stress in perspective. If you are a top student and enjoy being around smart kids, don't undersell yourself because you are worried about the workload. I little stress -- especially as motivation to learn and excel -- is not a bad thing.</p>
<p>
[quote]
I am a Cornell alum too, as a grad student many years ago. You said you were a varsity athlete. Any chance it was golf?? The University golf course is a very nice RTJ design that I played many times as a student and usually try to get on during visits to Ithaca.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>nope ... but I used the golf course ... I (sort of) ran cross country and track and the cross country course is on the golf course. My knees gave out soon after arriving in Ithaca so I spent a couple years trying to get back in one piece but it didn't work out.</p>
<p>Perfect advice, SAC. </p>
<p>Also, talk to the graduates of your high school who are/were at these colleges and see how they compare. I applied to a lot of selective colleges and talked to several graduates (thus my senior friends) about the workload. They all said how easy college was... and they're like-minded :) So I knew that wherever I'd go, work would be alright because my high school prepared us quite well. </p>
<p>Fast forward to Smith. Shocka! My GC warned me of its academic rigor. What academic rigor, I asked all through first semester. College was working quite well for me- not as stressful or heavy as high school was! And people say how tough Smith is... oh yeah, right.</p>
<p>But the intensity is getting to me now... but I am getting a lot of support. Don't worry, if you go to a small school like LACs, you will do just fine as long you're willing to give things a try unlike my friend who withdrew.</p>
<p>I go to Olin, an engineering school with a pretty heavy workload. A couple weeks into the first semester my math prof asked us if we had had a tough time getting his homework done. Everybody said that it had indeed been difficult, and he nodded. We waited for him to say something encouraging: that there would be less homework next week or that it would be easier. Instead he said, "It's going to be tough for the next few weeks, even the next month. You don't know how to manage your time yet, and you aren't familiar with the school yet, so everything is going to be hard right now."</p>
<p>He was right. The first few weeks were hell. We spent way too much time on homework and did things inefficiently. Eventually we learned how to work more efficiently, how to worry less about homework, and how to manage our time well enough to get some sleep. </p>
<p>Looking back, the things I've learned to do in order to manage time are things that a hundred people have told me. They're true, but time management is something that you have to learn by doing. Advice doesn't help a lot. You do it wrong the first time, then slightly better the second time. It isn't an especially fun part of the first semester of college, but it's something that everyone has to go through to at least some degree.</p>
<p>"Originaloog:</p>
<p>Good post. Unlike the OP, my S thinks that college will be less work than high school. This is his calculation:
6 hours of class per day, 5 days a week = 30 hours.
2 hours of homework per day, 5 days a week = 10 hours.
2 college classes = 10 hours (counting sections and study groups)
homework for college classes: 10 hours
Total number of study hours: 60.</p>
<p>Bring on the 46 hour-week."</p>
<p>Holy crap. I assume he will not be working and virtually will have no life.</p>
<p>"
Looking back, the things I've learned to do in order to manage time are things that a hundred people have told me. They're true, but time management is something that you have to learn by doing. Advice doesn't help a lot. You do it wrong the first time, then slightly better the second time. It isn't an especially fun part of the first semester of college, but it's something that everyone has to go through to at least some degree."</p>
<p>Somehow I never learn. I never learn to do anything other than panic.</p>