Worldwide University Rankings

Colleges and Universities A-Z University of California - Berkeley
1

<p>By the London Times. </p>

<p>Methodology used peer review based on strength/effectiveness of teaching, research, and international reputation.</p>

<p>Worldwide Ranking:</p>

<li>Harvard</li>
<li>University of California at Berkeley</li>
<li>MIT</li>
<li>California Institute of Technology</li>
<li>Oxford</li>
<li>Cambridge</li>
<li>Stanford</li>
<li>Yale</li>
<li>Princeton</li>
<li>ETH Zurich </li>
</ol>

<p>US Ranking:</p>

<li>Harvard</li>
<li>University of California at Berkeley</li>
<li>MIT</li>
<li>California Institute of Technology</li>
<li>Stanford</li>
<li>Yale</li>
<li>Princeton</li>
<li>University of Chicago</li>
<li>UT Austin</li>
<li>Columbia</li>
<li>University of California at San Francisco</li>
<li>Cornell</li>
<li>University of California at San Diego</li>
<li>John Hopkins</li>
<li>University of California at Los Angeles</li>
<li>University of Pennsylvania</li>
<li>University of Michigan</li>
<li>University of Illinois</li>
<li>Carnegie Mellon</li>
<li>University of Massachusetts</li>
<li>Duke</li>
<li>Purdue University</li>
<li>Brown</li>
<li>Georgia Institute of Technology</li>
<li>Wisconsin University</li>
</ol>

2

<p>But do you believe it? You said it yourself, you would have chosen to go to Stanford over Berkeley if you had gotten into Stanford. But why would you choose the #7 school over the #2 school?</p>

3

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<p>Look at the research methodology yourself. Don't criticize me, I did not perform the ranking study.</p>

<p>BTW, they did take into account Student/Faculty ratio into the rankings. In that particular aspect, Berkeley did rather poorly.</p>

4

<p>UMass at number 20... strange considering that UMass is actually 4 separate schools.</p>

5

<p>this is not right, because i saw another reliable source which ranks stanford as 2nd in the world</p>

6

<p>Well that's the problem. There is no such thing as a "standard" ranking mechanism. (I'm not trying to put down Berkeley by saying this. The NRC departmental rankings are closest to a "standard", and Berkeley does very well in them. Unfortunately these rankings are not compiled very frequently, granted departments don't change that rapidly.) Different places do it in different ways. I would argue that, like resonance structures in chemistry for example, all are not equally accurate but rather equally inaccurate since the entity in question cannot be completely described using that medium; just as delocalized pi bonds cannot be portrayed completely using Lewis Electron Dot structure, the quality of a school cannot be portrayed completely with such rankings. In other words, using only one source, you can grasp part of the concept, but by using different sources in juxtaposition, you can hope to gain a more consummate understanding of a school. A visit to the campus, touring the facilities, talking with professors and students, and alas, I will admit, rankings to a degree, can help you make the decision about which college is the "best" for you.</p>

7

<p>You are correct ay_caramba. Actually, if you look at many different rankings you will see that Berkeley ranks very highly on just about all of them. That is exactly why I conclude that Cal must be one of the greatest institutions on earth.</p>

8

<p>I have no argument with you there. I think restricting "greatest institutions on earth" solely to Cal would be a mistake and rather ignorant, however.</p>

9

<p>ay_caramba, That was not an ignorant statement. I think you misunderstood me. I meant to say that Cal is one of the "greatest institutions OF HIGHER LEARNING on earth." I did not mean that it was one of the greatest institutions (without the higher learning part) on earth. To tell you the truth, I really dont understand your comment. What exactly did you mean about it being ignorant? Instead of defending myself and attacking your response, I will instead allow you to explain more clearly what you meant.</p>

10

<p>I wasn't saying that YOUR comment was ignorant; that's why I said "I have no argument with you there," referring to your entire statement. I guess I didn't transition correctly. I meant to say that anyone who went BEYOND what you said and said the Cal was the absolute best, case closed, would be ignorant.</p>

<p>I appreciate you letting me explain sans a defensive attack.</p>

11

<p>ay_caramba,</p>

<p>Sorry dude!</p>

12

<p>hey, miscommunication happens. at least you were reasonable about it.</p>

13

<p>California1600, I am not criticizing the ranking survey. I am merely wondering how much stock you yourself place in it. After all, if you still would have chosen Stanford over Berkeley, despite Stanford's lower ranking, then you are admitting that you are yourself don't really believe the ranking. After all, if you really believed it, then there would be no reason for you to prefer Stanford.</p>

14

<p>Its probably a reputation thing. If I got into stanford and berkeley and doing a major that Berkeley excels in and Stanford doesn't, practically everybody i know will think I made the wrong decision</p>

15

<p>But on the other hand, if you major in something in which the 2 schools are basically equivalent, and you choose Berkeley, then it is probably true that everybody you know will also think that that was the wrong decision too.</p>

<p>The point is, obviously in those majors where Berkeley clearly dominates Stanford, you should go to Berkeley. However, first of all, the number of undergrad majors where Berkeley dominates Stanford is in the minority compared to the total number of majors out there. Second of all, in a tie-breaker situation, you must agree that the edge for undergrad clearly goes to Stanford. For graduate school, it is a different story. But for undergrad, you must agree that Stanford has the edge.</p>

16

<p>How come the public perception is that Stanford has better graduate schools than Berkeley? I have always thought that overall Stanford beat Berkeley in everything. It's business school, law school, and medical school are tops. Stanford's computer science doctoral programs helped spawn Silicon Valley. For physics, Stanford has SLAC. In fact, I don't think I'd personally choose any Berkeley PhD program over a Stanford or Harvard PhD program.</p>

17

<p>Stanford is the freaken bomb!!! rooster, just b/c people try to enlighten you on the greatness of Cal, given that you have a bias against it, does not imply that Stanford is anything but excellent. In my opinion, it is probably the best school in the US. I dont understand why you must put down other great schools though. If you need to put other schools down to make yourself feel good that is one thing but no one is going to take you seriously.</p>

18

<p>" In fact, I don't think I'd personally choose any Berkeley PhD program over a Stanford or Harvard PhD program."</p>

<p>Err... this is a very biased opinion, may be right for undergrad education, but certainly not for graduate study. Unfortunately rooster, I must tell you that it is more difficult to get into Berkeley's graduate program (in science & Engineering) than Stanford. Do you really think you're generally allowed to use Stanford SLAC ? Also don't forget that Berkeley still has Lawrence Lab that is more famous than Stanford SLAC.</p>

<p>In addition, Stanford's Law school, business school and Medical school never reach the fame of Harvard Law, Business, and Medical schools.</p>

19

<p>I thought Stanford's Law school is pretty famous actually. Isn't that 4 of the 9 Supreme Court Judges went to Stanford?</p>

<p>Stanford's B school is harder to get in than Harvard's (lower acceptance rate and higher GMAT), if I remember the stats correctly. Though I've heard that both are more about names than substance and that Wharton/Chicago/Northwestern have better programs.</p>

20

<p>I agree that Stanford's professional programs are better than Berkeley's. </p>

<p>However, at the risk of sounding like california1600, many if not most of Berkeley's PhD programs are equivalent to or are better than Stanford's. Here is where california1600's assessment of Berkeley's strength is spot-on. For example, the Berkeley PhD chemistry program is generally considered to be better than Stanford's - something confirmed by both USNews and the NRC study. Don't get me wrong - Stanford's PhD chemistry program is top-notch, but the bulk of the evidence seems to indicate that Berkeley's Phd chem program is better. Berkeley's PhD mathematics program is generally understood to be better. And if you want to look at the PhD humanities programs, they tend to break strongly in favor of Berkeley. English, history, sociology, poli-sci, anthropology, etc. are all points in favor of Berkeley. Again, don't get me wrong, that's not to say that Stanford isn't strong in all of these departments, and that's not to say that Stanford doesn't have such departments in which it is stronger (i.e. Stanford's PhD psychology program is probably better than Berkeley's), but the trend is clear. </p>

<p>I will agree, and have always agreed, that from an undergraduate standpoint, there is no contest between Stanford and Berkeley. In fact, I think the undergraduate program is Berkeley's Achilles Heel, far and away. It is the weakest program in the whole university, and the fact that it also happens to be the biggest program makes its problems even more striking. Again, that's not to say that the Berkeley undergrad program is bad, because it is still pretty good, but it just doesn't match Berkeley's PhD programs.</p>

<p>However, if you're a true PhD candidate who is strong enough where getting into a PhD program at Berkeley, Harvard, or Stanford is actually a viable option for you, then I think you will understand that you will be choosing your PhD program not for its pop-culture name recognition, but for the appropriate resources and opportunities that it will give you as a PhD student. In that regard, the Berkeley PhD program does just as well as anyone, and the strength of the Berkeley PhD is eminently recognized by anybody who actually matters for that sort of thing. To offer an analogy, very few regular people know what UCSF does, but among doctors and hospitals, UCSF is generally understood to be the best medical school in California. I don't think even rooster08 would seriously dispute this. Sure, regular people have no idea about the strength of UCSF. But what does that matter. The medical community, and the premed community, know about the strength of UCSF. And ultimately, that's what really matters. Similarly, the academic community understands the strength of the Berkeley PhD programs, and that's what ultimately matters.</p>