<p>I don’t think it’s only English classes that provide training in writing skills. History, philosophy, and religious studies (specifically, seminars requiring essays, not lectures requiring multiple-choice tests) have the same effect. I’d argue that foreign language courses (above the introductory level) would also apply – another area where the rigidity of engineering makes it quite difficult to take 16 credits (the equivalent of intermediate level study required for humanities majors).</p>
<p>To be fair, I think the ability for a humanities major to only take a simple “math for non-majors” type of course, a couple similar “science for non-majors” courses, and never touch a quantitative course again is a huge problem. However, for the interested student, it’s quite possible to take advanced quantitative coursework, resulting in either a minor or a second major – a positive aspect of having less major requirements.</p>
<p>What I find unfortunate is prospective engineers being kept from a comprehensive liberal arts education, while those planning to become lawyers, doctors, businessmen, or research scientists may pursue exactly that. </p>
<p>Referring to the original topic: I’ve found that putting the focus on developing specific skills and areas of knowledge is a rather good way to go about planning one’s own education. And for myself, I’ve found upper division humanities courses to be the best path for improving my writing, and upper division social science courses for my quantitative skills (once I take into account areas of knowledge that I’d like to be familiar with). As for the major(s)/minor(s) listed on my resume/transcript, I chose those that best-encompassed my learning objectives and their associated courses. When comparing majors, the focus on salary is misleading, but so is the choice of career: one should be concerned with what one learns above all else.</p>
<p>My sister has degrees in art/design. My Dad was convinced that she would end up starving, but she makes more in her design business than I make as a CPA.</p>
<p>D’s passion is drama/theater. She would be miserable as an engineer or accountant despite being a math whiz.</p>
<p>My undergraduate college required engineers to write a lot of technical papers and reports and graded them very hard. As a result, I’m quite sure that if you compared music majors to engineering majors, you’d find the engineering majors were more skilled at writing than the music majors.</p>
<p>I partially agree. Not all “math or science for non-majors” courses are non-rigorous. Physics for majors is going to focus on the facts. I agree that non-majors should learn the facts, but sometimes it helps to focus more on the application or the idea than the details of the equations. This way, people who aren’t math or science oriented can get a math or science education without feeling “overwhelmed.” Not to mention, “math in music” classes are really cool. Stanford has a class called “Introduction to Computers” for non-majors. It is what you would call a “CS for non-majors” class. I agree that’s it’s light weight, but for someone who is not CS oriented, learning about how computers work - rather than the ins and outs of Java - is much more beneficial.</p>
<p>I also agree with the vice versa. I don’t necessarily think math and science oriented people should have to take a class on Chaucer. But they should have to take classes on fundamental skills regarding literature, composition, comprehension, and grammar.</p>
<p>mamakin - Congrats to your S for following his dream. My D will be pursuing a BFA in musical theatre and we could not be happier for her. It is what she loves and we feel she makes a meaningful contribution to the community with her work. She may not ever get rich performing (but she may!) but I have no doubt she will be happy and so will those people who get to see her on stage. Hope that rock star job works out for your son!!</p>
<p>I’m having a bit of a problem with S2’s intended choice of psychology as a major but as I also said the same thing about my other 2 kids choices that turned out very successful and now have absolutely no credibility I’m not going to say too much. But, I worry since it is one of the most popular majors at practically every school we looked at. I’ve asked him whether he is going to go to grad school or med school, but its hard to pin down a 16 year old.</p>
<p>My boyfriend desperately wanted to major in psychology, but his mom convinced him to major in the pre-med track of clinical lab science instead-- what she majored in in college-- because she felt psychology was not a legitimate thing to study, even though he intended to become a psychologist. Now as a senior he is so incredibly MISERABLE that he is changing his major and praying that his unhappiness and his lack of ability for the major his mother picked for him hasn’t affected his grades too much to still get into grad school. As it turns out, pre-med was too taxing on math/science skills he didn’t have-- which he knew, but his mother refused to accept. While you do want to consider earning potential, especially if you’re paying for the degree or allowing a significant amount of debt, there is a line not to cross here. My boyfriend is just torn in half now because he’s put so much work into suffering through CLS and now it’s his last chance to stand up to his mom and change and he doesn’t know what to do, and she has him convinced all his hopes and dreams are just completely worthless and he’ll be worthless if he pursues them. It’s as if his mother is forgetting that there is a person involved in this, not just some soulless entity she is putting through school to reflect well on her. I’m sure she doesn’t mean it but she doesn’t seem to realize how much her words are deflating him.</p>
<p>On the other hand, I am majoring in political science, and while I am glad that my parents were (eventually) able to accept my choice of major, I wish they had more strenuously encouraged a cheaper school in that case. Even when I was pre-law I’d planned for public service, we never had any grand ideas of high income for me. Not sure what I was thinking coming here! If I could do it again I’d still choose poli sci, but a cheaper school for sure.</p>
<p>Absolutely agree, I’m not doing it, I’ve learned my lesson. And this S does nothing he doesn’t want to do anyway, so… While I definitely think he has the ability for pre-med he has to decide he absolutely wants to go that way, not me. Someone reminded me the other day that a major is most likely just 10 classes out of 40 (average of course). I was an Econ major and took 11. I’m not an economist btw nor nothing close. So, I think sometimes a parent has to back off, but its so damn hard. I also agree with the finances. I don’t want him to take out big loans, I’m not adverse to the one small Federal loan if absolutely necessary, but thats it.</p>
<p>You have to pursue your passion, and choose your studies accordingly. What bothers me, though, are kids who knowingly choose majors generally leading to lower paying careers, and choose expensive private schools. Why pay $200K for a degree that will lead to a $40K job? If you want to be a social worker (and bless you if you do), go to a junior college or state school.</p>
<p>All I can say is there is something not healthy going on here, and it’s not just the mom. It’s one thing to let a parent to talk you into something you’re not interested in, it’s competely another thing to harbor ill feelings about it through all of college until the senior year.</p>
<p>Your boyfriend is an adult and is allowed make his own decisions without mom’s approval. He should start exterting that power and do what he wants regardless of whether mamma approves or not.</p>
<p>There’s nothing wrong with flying first class to go camping.</p>
<p>But whining at the camping about how much your first class ticket cost, and talking about how you can barely afford to feed your family during the trip, and how you had to camp at a cheaper campsite that was a long ways from where the more desireable and more expensive campsite was, would be inappropriate.</p>
<p>I can understand your frustration, but if your sons are going to be breadwinners for themselves and possibly a future family, shouldn’t there be some concern about whether they can earn a decent salary? Or, do they have a trust fund, or perhaps they’ll always be able to count on you?</p>
<p>*
Well, god forbid their wives be the breadwinners*</p>
<p>Of course a wife can also be a breadwinner. A breadwinner isn’t necessarily the sole income of a family. However, not everyone gets married, nor does everyone stay married. And, many wives are not major breadwinners - especially during the years that children are young. </p>
<p>I would be concerned if my children did not major in something that would likely result in a decent paying job. I don’t want to be supporting them forever, nor would I want them to think that they had to find spouses to support them (and any possible children) because they were unable to.</p>
<p>My wife happily works full time at her job that requires a college degree. And she also happily tells me that it is my job to make enough money so she can work in the job she likes rather than the job she has to have.</p>
<p>I think that’s the ideal bigtrees, where two people are willing to support each other’s life choices. People want to be valued for what they do, and it’s great to have a partner that can cheer you on when the workplace or the job market doesn’t seem to value you. That goes for whether you are a “starving artist” or a “overworked drone.” Until my two boys hopefully find that life partner, I’m letting them know that I’ve got their back and will support their choices.</p>
<p>Anyone else discouraged by the current trend for so many young people choosing business majors? The objective of business is to make money- these students are blatently choosing that as their objective. Many people with other majors will end up in the business world, but will also have pursued another passion. The breadth requirements for business majors thankfully require at least some science and humanities/social science or it would be a trade school. This generalization doesn’t consider all of the majors in a business school such as accountant and actuaral science, both of which require a true interest/ passion to complete. </p>
<p>It is always a compromise between passion for knowledge in a subject and practicality. “Jack of all trades and master of none” - there’s a reason that phrase lasts. Philosophy and math are more closely related than many think- no wonder philosophy majors do so well on the GRE.</p>
<p>"You have to pursue your passion, and choose your studies accordingly. What bothers me, though, are kids who knowingly choose majors generally leading to lower paying careers, and choose expensive private schools. Why pay $200K for a degree that will lead to a $40K job? If you want to be a social worker (and bless you if you do), go to a junior college or state school. "</p>
<p>why pay 200k for a degree that will lead to a 90k job? Unless A. It improves your career possibilities in that job OR It is rewarding in other important ways AND you can afford it</p>
<p>Which could be the case for someone going to a 40k field. </p>
<p>In some cases, I think it might be MORE important for a less lucrative field.</p>
<p>I am talking impressions here, but my sense is that the difference, in say journalism, between going to an Ivy, and going to a non flagship state, lets say (usual exceptions where the latter has a well known program), is huge. OTOH the difference in engineering, not so much. Not much at all in many cases. </p>
<p>Of course “can afford it” could be different, but thats another question</p>