Would a few B's hurt my admissions?

Colleges & Universities A-Z Massachusetts Institute of Technology
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<p>MIT seems like an awesome school, and although unlikely, I would like to attend there.
However, I just transferred to a different school (Sophomore). I'm sorry for the length of this message, but please hear me out.</p>

<p>I've gone to private Catholic school almost my entire life, due to my father's terrible public school upbringing. I realize that public schools are different today, but in my town, the private schools have better academics. I attended a small, Catholic high school for freshman year, but it was incredibly easy, boring, and above all, I learned virtually nothing. I had a 4.0 the first semester, all As in math and science. However, in second semester disaster struck... I had a chronic migraine for a month and a half (I needed hospitalization but refused due to medical costs). I missed over 25 days of school. My grades slipped, but only in three categories:
B+ in Spanish
B in World History
A- in Algebra I (straight A's in the rest)
(For the record, an A- is a 93, and an A is a 95+)
I took this was a sign that I wasn't being challenged enough.
Bored to tears, I naturally despised this school. I only had two other options, however; to apply as a transfer student to IMSA or Benet, a high ranking private school in Illinois. </p>

<p>I applied to IMSA, but I had to take the SATs, and did pitifully.
Math: 600
CR:560
Writing:510
I did not get in. I do reckon I only had a few weeks preparation and only one level of math (Algebra I), however that should be no excuse for these terrible scores. </p>

<p>Thankfully, after a few interviews, I got into Benet with an honors Math and Science track.
However, Benet is MUCH harder than my previous school, and I managed to get the two hardest teachers for math and science! My straight A's soon turned to B's. I'm not incredibly distraught by this, because I am being challenged, but I don't even make first honors with these grades! (Scale: A:92, B:85; weighted)
Phys Ed: 95 (Yes, it counts!)
Modern World: 93
American Literature: 92
Geometry: 90 (Probably lower because of a bad test grade that I haven't factored in yet)
Chemistry: 89
Spanish: 86 (Integration)</p>

<p>This is only the first semester, and I haven't even taken finals yet. I have a hunch that they won't help, though. </p>

<p>So I pose my question: Do you think these grades would be a detriment to an application? Or will they take them into consideration due to me being a transfer student? I also do many extra-curriculars: During Freshman year I was in Human Rights, Secretary of Student Government, Future Business Leaders of America, Robotics, Math Team, and I also got invited to model for a competition (but I didn't do it.)</p>

<p>This year I did: Science Olympiad, Law Club, Math Team, and Robotics (again).(I wanted to do FBLA but they didn't have it!!). I'm applying to NHS and I'm considering running for track and joining Recycling club, but probably not. I'm also a pianist that has been playing for six years and I've been in American Grands (concert) since fourth grade. In my spare time I've been learning Java and developed a few apps for Android. I'm publishing my first this week. Naturally, this counts as self-study to AP Computer Science A. I've also gotten ahold of next year's math textbook (Algebra-Trigonometry) and am trying to test out. However, even if I don't make it I'm still on track to take BC Calculus senior year. </p>

<p>I also got invited to two modeling competitions this year (NAM and Miss Teen I think...) but refused them because, plainly, I don't like to model. I might do them next year if I'm invited but I don't think they will help college admissions. Would they? My mom says they do but I don't know. I don't even know how the competitions get my mailing address. (However, just because I decide to do it doesn't mean I'm automatically qualified.)</p>

<p>But that's about it as far as ECs go. What do you think?</p>

<p>Btw, are there any scholarships for red hair? My friend says there is but I don't believe her. Also, is there a scholarship for persistent aura without infarction? Due to it's complications I don't qualify for chronic migraine OR epilepsy.</p>

<p>Anyway, thanks alot for reading.</p>

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<p>Certainly those grades are not going to be an asset in your application… But I don’t think they will disqualify you from admission, especially since it seems you have much to offer. I can’t imagine that many android developer models apply to this school :slight_smile: Wish you best of luck!</p>

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<p>My advice to the OP is to lessen your ECs as you adjust to the difficulty of your new school. As a sophomore (which is what I’m guessing you are,) and especially since you are having some problems in your classes, I would suggest you only do ECs for enjoyment and to give you a break from studying–not to garner accomplishments for colleges.</p>

<p>Your freshman year SATs are not pitiful, especially with the level of math you had going into them. You will make large gains naturally, and someone with your score as a freshman probably will not have a problem getting 1400+/1600 or better when you are a junior.</p>

<p>Honestly, I see this again and again, but many kids today think that doing some advanced ECs (e.g., android development) will or should make up for a lack of fundamentals. They don’t, and you would need a tremendous amount of sophistication you need to actually have or be able to demonstrate that you have a unique asset. Otherwise, it’s not much more than demonstrated interest. </p>

<p>There’s a famous psychological concept called Maslow’s hierarchy of needs which is analagous in some ways to academic achievement. [Maslow’s</a> hierarchy of needs - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia](<a href=“http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maslow’s_hierarchy_of_needs]Maslow’s”>Maslow's hierarchy of needs - Wikipedia)
If there was a corresponding “hierarchy” for academic achievement, one of the lowest levels would be mastering the high school curriculum. EC involvement would be higher up. At the highest level, you would actually have developed the potential for being creative in an academic field.</p>

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<p>Some random advice:
I would not take those beauty pageants seriously. They invited me, and heavens knows that I would give those judges heart attacks.
They don’t really help unless you win, fyi. And even then, not useful.</p>

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<p>Thanks collegealum314,
Unfortunately, I do all my ECs for fun and enjoyment. xD Math and science are my two favorite subjects and any EC I can get my hands on that involves them is amazingly fun. (If I wanted to impress a college, I would have joined a sport!) My mom’s side of the family has majored in law as well, so Law Club is a good fit. </p>

<p>As for course difficulty, I’m getting the hang of it. Each progress report my grades go up. I think I will have close to straight A’s next semester (hopefully!) but it is kind of hard to adjust, as my school this year is much larger and very different. I’m trying to take a few AP courses next year, although to take AP Computer Science I have to take an incredibly easy prep course first, and I don’t think it’s worth my time. My dad also majored in computer science and I don’t find app development that difficult, so I made a plan to self-study as well as give myself an at-home job at the same time. I think it might go well, but I’m not sure. </p>

<p>Btw I loved your connection to Maslow’s hierarchy chart. It’s a very good representation of high school in general! I have to say though, I think I’m doing pretty well in school considering the transfer. I heard Benet ranks pretty high in math and science.
Although, if I do well on the SATs but with A’s and a few B’s, do you think they would consider me over someone with a lower SAT or ACT with better grades (from a different school)?</p>

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<p>As long as you can reflect on your illness and grades in a positive light, the two B’s shouldn’t hurt as long as you’re able to keep your grades up for the rest of your career.</p>

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<p>It depends what kind of courses the other applicant has. If they were all APs, then they will have a slight advantage unless their SAT is ridiculously low. SAT and GPA have approx. the same weight in the application process though, so it’s hard to say who is more favored ehen such a situation arises.</p>

<p>I think you shouldn’t worry about having a few B’s. Plenty of students with 2400s and 4.0 uw gpa get rejected by HYPS MIT, while other people with decent SATs (above 2200) and 3.8 uw, 4.2 weighted get in. Colleges look at apps HOLISTICALLY, so if you are a well-rounded applicant you should be fine.
Have good extra-curriculars. You don’t need a lot, just have a few you have spent a lot of dedication and time on and what you personally feel important about.</p>

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<p>Don’t mean to sound redundant, but don’t stress about it. Obviously, great grades would be great (redundancy strikes again…), but they’re not the only thing. If you can prove that you are academically capable of succeeding at MIT, MIT would love it. Though this does require you to study harder junior year.</p>

<p>Grades aren’t everything, and college admissions officers know that; they know that grades can be misleading. They know that your transferring schools seriously hurt your raw grades, and they know that there is a lot of discrepancy regarding letter grades. So don’t worry about it. Worrying will only worsen everything for you.</p>

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<p>Admissions is holistic, but it doesn’t mean that everybody with lower grades/stats has equal chances. For HYPS and the ivies, a math/science guy with predominantly academic ECs has the least margin of error in terms of grades and stats. A couple of B’s <em>may</em> be ok, but certainly more than that and you are close to getting shut out everywhere good (top 10.) Yes, I’m sure Benet is a good school, but that too can work against you. Now you have more “opportunity,” so the expectations are higher in terms of stats. Anyway, in terms of college admissions transferring to a better school usually doesn’t mean that the expectations will be lower, especially if you are talking about a midwest school and not a school like Exeter. Even IMSA doesn’t get a lot of slack from some of the elites in terms of forgiving grade blemishes, or so I’ve heard from another threads.</p>

<p>HYPS are not trying to recruit a bunch of geniuses, but in general they want to get people who have met a certain high threshhold of intelligence, and who will be able to satisfy whatever a future customer/employer would want further on. There was a guy on here who was bragging how he was acing college-level Analysis (a very advanced topic) but didn’t care about the SAT math and so had like 650 on it. He was a deep thinker, so he thought that colleges should take him because of that despite being prone to careless errors on standardized test. The thing is, though, most colleges only are looking for a few superstar academics in their classes (Harvard estimates like a couple of hundred out of 1600 I believe.) And having blemishes on easy tests or classes disqualifies you from so-called “academic superstar” status. The rest of the guys they want to be smart enough to “do the work” as they say. They don’t have to be geniuses, but they have to be polished and present themselves well. HYPS wants their graduates to wield power and influence in the future, so they expect that their typical graduate will do what is needed to satisfy the customer. In the case of high school grades, getting a bunch of B’s is a sign that you don’t know or don’t care about being polished or presenting yourself well. They do make exceptions; go ahead and smoke pot in the school cafeteria if you are Al Gore’s son and do lousy in class. If you are a great athlete or, the standards are bent down as well. If you do something that strikes them as unusual or unique, that might get you in but software development is very hard to do impress admissions staffs with. My guess is only starting a successful company based on software would allow you to make up for relatively substandard grades/scores. Occasionally, someone will write an essay that will strike a chord with the admissions staff and get in in spite of relatively mediocre stats by HYPS standards, but this is somewhat like a Hail Mary pass. </p>

<p>MIT does have a more forgiving philosophy with regards to grades. Evidence of an academic bent is more important than having an unblemished output in terms of grades and stats. However, MIT admission is so difficult that I don’t think it’s wise to base your philosophy of how to invest your time based on it.</p>

<p>If you want to make a conscious choice to spend more time doing software development at the expense of getting top grades, than it might pay off if you actually end up doing software. Who knows? You could be the next Bill Gates. However, for other fields you will be getting more and more behind. For perspective, top science and engineering candidates (in terms of academic skills and preparation, not in terms of how desired they are by colleges) would typically be getting in the 98-100% range in their AP math/science classes. There <em>are</em> some people, like the poster and MIT grad Mikalye for instance, that went MIA occasionally in classes and got a few random B’s because they refused to do rote memorization, but were nevertheless at a very high level (as evidenced by rocking the math contests) and thus weren’t at a disadvantage in college. This is a real phenomenon, but it’s kind of wishful thinking to ascribe this to your situation. And in terms of admissions, this sort of thing will hurt you.</p>

<p>Do your best, and there is no point in worrying. The good thing is that you are hearing this now as a sophomore, while there is still time to adjust your trajectory.</p>

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<p>@collegealum314</p>

<p>Really? Colleges, especially HYPS and MIT, seem like they want a great deal of superstar academic students. Otherwise, they could not be seen as the greatest universities in the nation. Top tier colleges put academics as their first priority; if you can’t prove you can succeed there, then they can’t accept you. Truth is, almost all students at these colleges are in some way or form academically gifted, and showing a unique and strong academic potential in one or two subject fields is essential in college applications. However, I’m pretty sure we just have different definitions for a superstar student.</p>

<p>To reply to the rest, yes it does hurt your chances. Will it eliminate you? Certainly not. Use it as fuel to motivate yourself to do the best you can possibly do the rest of high school. </p>

<p>Just as a general note though, if you don’t get into HYPS, MIT, etc., don’t worry. It doesn’t mean you weren’t good enough. Most times it’s just that you didn’t make the lottery. You can still succeed without a top tier college. A lab head at Sanofi Aventis graduated from UMass, and he’s the boss of tons of Harvard graduates.</p>

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<p>Well, first of all, as I said, I think MIT and HYPS have different priorities in admissions, even if there is a large overlap in who gets in where.</p>

<p>For HYPS, I think that if you have straight A’s and 1500+/1600 on the SAT, you have the intellect box checked. Maybe you think this qualifies as a “superstar student”–I don’t. As they say over and over, you can “do the work.” Demonstrating intelligence beyond that (through recs, academic competitions, research) is not as helpful as non-academic ECs. It’s just my observation from seeing scores of applicants apply to these places. Usually, the people with non-academic ECs also have some academic awards as well, but what I’m saying is this often trumps being significantly better in terms of academic talent.</p>

<p>You can get in by just intellectual firepower (e.g., Evan O’Dourney), but it’s a lot harder and I don’t think this is really the prototype they are looking for. </p>

<p>As for reputation being dependent on academic quality, well there is some correlation, but it’s not 100%. The quality of the departments and their reputations are determined by their professors and the grad students that carry out their ideas. The US News report has only a very crude measurement of the academic talent of the undergrad student body–SAT score of the middle 50% (so bottom 25% is not measured at all), and what percentage of the entering class graduated in the top 10% of their high school class. Despite its selectivity, Harvard has what, like 85% of their entering class who graduated in the top 10% in high school. It’s not very high. For comparison, Caltech has like 97% statistic.</p>

<p>As I said in earlier posts, HYPS are looking for candidates which they think will have future influence in the world. Once you meet a minimum academic bar, they are looking for other things. Go listen to the rhetoric of admissions people and make your own judgement.</p>

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<p>collegealum:
it’s evan o’dorney :)</p>

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<p>

Yeah, but Harvard also has a considerably higher percentage of the class coming from private high schools than Caltech, right?</p>

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<p>Interesting point. Hm…there are a lot of confounding factors. The small class size could skew it such that Caltech actually takes a greater percentage from exclusive high schools, especially if you include public magnets–only room for the cream. I suppose this could be one reason for the higher percentage at Caltech with better high school class rank. However, MIT has generally had higher stats by like 5-7% in terms of grades for its entering class than Harvard, and they are of similar size. Second of all, I’m not sure how that statistic is calculated for the top high schools; I think most private schools and public magnets do not calculate rank to discourage competition among the student body, so private schools may not even be counted. Third of all, my experience is that if you are not top 10% in your class, even at a private school, you have little or no chance at getting into Caltech. And the only way they’ll be forgiving at all is if there are no blemishes in math and science and you have done well nationally on math contests. Realistically, they do hold it against you for having a few mediocre grades, even if they think you could have been valedictorian at a normal school. HYPS, on the other hand, may be equally selective in terms of who they admit from a private school, but then not really take the best people academically. They actually say this, “We don’t necessarily take the best academically”–and they’re not referring to the crazy exceptions like Yo Yo Ma or olympic athletes (or even athletic recruits.)</p>