Would like help with biology schools

“both my bio mom and dad are considered small business owners”

You biological parents are divorced and both are small business owners. As such, the NPCs cannot be relied on. No school is a safety for you unless you can afford to pay for it without any aid at all. You might get either need based or merit based aid, but you cannot count on it at least until your acceptance offers start to arrive.

As such, what you can consider to be a safety will depend upon what you can afford to pay.

“Is there any particular reason why Amherst shouldn’t be on my list besides cost”

U.Mass Amherst is a very good university. Academically it is as good as the better SUNY’s. IMHO the only reason to think about whether or not you should consider it is cost, since you are out of state.

If you can only afford $30,000 or a bit less, then the only schools that look like safeties to me would be some of the SUNY’s and some schools in Canada (most of the ones that are not famous and are not in Ontario would be under US$30k per year, and there are a lot of very good schools up there with strong biology programs).

If you can afford $80,000 per year, then of course cost becomes a non-issue.

@twogirls @DadTwoGirls My dad says he can pay 30k per year and my bio mom agreed to pay half of my tuition, which would be another 30k, but she may be able to pay for more than that; I have to ask her. How can I figure out how much each college costs? Are the results that come up on google accurate enough for my situation? Also, is taking out student loans a good idea?

I’m not sure how to gauge biology programs, I’ve been just checking each school’s biology ranking on Niche. What other ways are there to see what schools have better biology programs?

Thank you guys again for helping so much!

Go to each school’s website and search for cost of attendance. You will see costs for tuition, fees, room and board. Some schools also show costs for health insurance, personal expenses, and transportation, so don’t forget to budget those.

Look at each school’s biology department. How many full/assistant/associate/adjunct professors are there? What are their credentials? From what schools are their PhDs? Look at what research they are doing. Look at the online course catalogs for a listing of classes. What do you see what appeals to you?

Taking out the max federal direct student loans can be ok. You are limited to $27K total ($5.5K, $6.5, $7.5 and $7.5 over the four years of undergrad). Anything over that would have to be taken out by your parents.

Did your mom give you a firm commitment of $30,000 per year…or are you assuming that number?

@twogirls assuming it. I think I can come back with a more solid number tomorrow evening

Once you have a firm amount of what your mom will contribute each year, then it will be easier to come up with a list of schools. Half of tuition alone (room/board is additional) can be 25-30,000.

Dad- $30,000 a year
Mom- $30,000 a year
Summer earnings- $3000
Student loan- $5500 ( if you need to take it)

If this pans out…you will have just under $70,000 a year for college. The next step is to confirm these numbers with both parents. I assume your parents are not taking loans for this? Based on what you have told us, you won’t qualify for FA.

The school’s website will have the total COA. This includes tuition, room and board, health insurance ( if you need it), fees etc. Many private schools are in the range of $70,000 a year.

If your numbers turn out to be accurate, many schools will be affordable for you - esp if you can also snag some merit aid. Check on the numbers first, but then just look at schools. Don’t merely look at rankings because those are very subjective and there’s rarely a noticeable difference between several slots. Look at what the professors specialize in and see if any appeal more to you than others. Look at overall fit of the college (large/medium/small, urban/suburban/rural, Greek vs not, etc) too. You’re likely to come up with quite a few you like. Apply to some of those being certain at least one is a financial safety (comes in under your budget), then figure out which one you want to attend after you see what actual acceptances/costs are in the spring. Merit aid will be known at that point so you will know College A costs X, College B costs Y, etc, and can discuss which one ends up your choice.

If you have at least $50k per year available without taking on any loans, then I would recommend that you do not take any loans at all. You can find good schools with strong biology programs for less than $50k per year. Biology is a major for which many students end up choosing to attend graduate school (or medical school or …). This will be easier if you get a bachelor’s degree without any debt. Also, many recent college graduates are making just sort of enough money to get by, and having no debt can be a huge luxury once you have graduated. With a budget in the $50k to $60k range, this is a luxury that you can afford.

As a biology students you will be taking some classes in common with premed students. These will be academically challenging at a very wide range of universities.

@twogirls @Creekland @DadTwoGirls Ok, my mom confirmed she will do 30k, so I have a budget of around 60k. Do you have any more suggestions for what schools I should look into?

Try stepping back a little and doing some reflection on you and how you work. Almost any college will give you a good enough Bio undergrad to get into any grad school. The vast majority will have interesting research opportunities and more things to do than you will have time to do. So, once the school is on budget, what will matter is how it suits you and any pieces that particularly appeal to you.

You mentioned JHU- what the JHU students I know have in common is they are workers - they push themselves hard, and being around other people who push themselves hard motivates them to push themselves even harder. If that’s you, it’s a great place- but if it’s not, it can be very unhappy. One person’s “motivating” is another person’s “too competitive”!

If you are thinking ‘maybe med school’ a whole other layer comes in to play: you may want to choose a place where you are at the high-end of accepted students- so that you will be in a good position to get the high GPA and be the student who gets the standout LoRs you need for med school- and from which you can graduate with no debt.

Do take a look at the women’s colleges- they can be a super option for a STEM woman.

@platypusomelette Have you visited colleges to know which type you like? Are you interested in Greek life? Do you prefer urban/suburban/rural? There are plenty of terrific options (besides U Rochester that I already suggested) - too many to list without knowing what “you” prefer.

With 60K to use, all you need is a little bit of merit aid at most schools to have everything covered and no debt. It’s a nice place to be in TBH. That said, it won’t do you any favors to go somewhere without that merit aid you need. You can’t borrow that much difference yourself. You’d have to have someone co-sign and it would leave you with too much debt to be comfortable with. Be sure schools you like have merit aid you could at least be competitive for.

Also, why biology?
There’s currently an oversupply of bio majors that the market can’t absorb, as a result it has a very low ROI.
Why not biostatistics, bioinformatics?

Look at Cornell CALS and run the NPC.
Other possibilities include Virginia Tech, Penn State, UVermont. All women’s colleges (Scripps and Agnes Scott included).

What are you planning to do with your biology degree? What are you looking for in a school…size, Greek life, etc?

@MYOS1634 wrote: “why biology?
There’s currently an oversupply of bio majors that the market can’t absorb, as a result it has a very low ROI. Why not biostatistics, bioinformatics?”

Do you think colleges’s biology departments are generally aware of this oversupply and advising accordingly? My kid is about to start at an R1 university, with prime interest in biology. Too bad for her that I know nothing about the natural sciences.

To the OP, my child is going to Brandeis, a research university with a terrific reputation in biology and a lot of the nurturing features of a small college. For her, it mattered most that it has a strong social justice focus and is in her preferred geographic area. These elements (issues of fit) are quite important and will help you distinguish among the great many schools that are all very strong in biology.

@Lynnski if you want to talk about biology majors please PM me. My D was one.

@collegemom3717 I think I would like to be around driven people who really love what they do, but by “competitive” is it a negative one? Do you have recommendations for how I can get to know a college better like that? I’m also not sure whether I want to do biological research or medicine.

@Creekland I haven’t done any visits but would like to do fly-ins after I narrow down my list of colleges. I don’t have that much of a preference for anything except that my main concern is that I would like to go somewhere where the biology program is as challenging and fulfilling as possible. Thanks for the advice about merit aid, I will definitely investigate that

@MYOS1634 @twogirls I think I’m going to pursue grad school, either a PhD or med school. I’ve just done a ton of biology the whole time I’ve been in school and it’s all I’ve done for extracurriculars, so I really enjoy learning about biology, but since I’ve had to act as a biology generalist to fit all of my clubs I don’t know which field I most want to do

I think you should explore colleges where you can easily participate in research. This will help you decide whether you want to go the med school route…or PhD. I also recommend attending a school where you are closer to the top so that you stand a better chance of earning a gpa that is worthy of medical school. I would put the University of Pittsburgh on your list.

@platypusomelette I still stand by my earlier recommendations of U Rochester and U Pittsburgh. You could add Case Western and Emory too. My lad sounds similar in his desires in his high school years. U Roc ended up first on his list and is where he attended loving every moment of it. He’s now starting his third year of med school (also at URoc), but the only thing that swayed him briefly from that desire was research because he loved that too - even spent a (paid) summer at Stanford researching where they tried to sway him to change his mind. Research ended up being his Plan B, but couldn’t overtake Plan A. He’s wanted to be a doctor since third grade.

Pitt was his close second choice. He preferred URoc’s campus over Pitt’s. U Roc was also less expensive for us, but only by 1K or so, so either would have been acceptable to us. CW and Emory he opted not to apply to, but thought about. CW was too urban and the profs weren’t as aligned with things he wanted to research (brain & cognitive science for him). Emory required subject tests of homeschoolers (he homeschooled 7-12) and not of regular applicants even with his AP and DE substitutes and that turned him off from even giving them a visit - didn’t matter that we were right in Atlanta and could easily swing by.

He ended up majoring in Bio and BCS, then added minors in American Sign Language and Psychology. He took advantage of their tuition free Take 5 program to add an independent study regarding Western Influences on Success in Africa as well. Academics - and dance, juggling, research, and being an RA were all things he loved. He helped with research in the hospital (right across the street) and within his BCS crowd. No regrets on his part.

Quite honestly, the other choices he had would have been good too - as are many others - so find the perfect fit for you in the same way he did for him. Just be certain research being done at the schools matches the things you like, esp at the smaller schools. He eliminated many smaller schools without applying and one after acceptance - though that one was eliminated due to not even being close to the others in cost to us. They evidently didn’t want him as a student as much as the other schools.

I’m not a big fan of rankings.

However. The University of Massachusetts at Amherst is suffering a bit from historical reference a bit on this thread.

They are currently tied with Pitt and UCSC in the usnwr public is university school rankings. 6 spots higher than the top SUNY school. Just won the best dining options award today for the 9th straight year. In the sciences besides engineering it’s CS:AI work is top five level. The shared work with the med school is adding significantly to the bio and health sciences work as well. Heck of a nursing school on campus too.

Add in some fun sports, quintessential college town, five soon to be four college consortium and all the huge investment in facilities why wouldn’t be on this students list to consider? it is a school really moving up the charts without playing any games.

I wouldn’t pay more than the top SUNY schools because the SUNY schools are that good. Unless the things previously mentioned work for this student better and the finances work too, then why not take a look because Massachusetts is fantastic too

But folks asking why they are on the list don’t reslly know that much about the school as of late.

JMTC.

Such a good point and good suggestion.

One reason there are so many bio grads is because many start as premed and then for whatever reason, they don’t end up in med school.

Many pick bio as a major because they liked it in high school. But there’s just not a lot of jobs for those with bio degrees. So the suggestion of biostats or bioinformatics is a good one. Makes one more marketable!