Would love some advice

<p>Consensus everywhere is that those freshman grades won't hurt her, not even a smidgeon, as long as she doesn't slip backwards in the more important years, of which jr. and first-quarter sr. are the most significant. </p>

<p>In addition, some schools will also check in on her during sr. year, after she's applied to them, by requiring a "Midyear Report" of her sr. grades, but that's just to make sure she didn't decide to run off to the circus after filing her applications with them. Also, no flunking stuff at the end of sr. year.</p>

<p>So, yes, those competitive NYC suburbs can drive you bonkers. I really hesitate to suggest this, not knowing you, but I'll offer that our 3rd child, whose grades don't measure up to some in his competitive h.s., benefitted GREATLY by getting involved in his local religious youth group. The reason is, they cherished him there for his good values, kindness and personality. He took on some leadership opportunities that led to national positions, and these became the topics for his college essays. Service or church youth groups can give kids confidence and opportunities; it doesn't all have to happen under the school roof. Very affirming; kept him very positive.</p>

<p>Momnew, your D sounds like a wonderful girl and a good student. You are living in College Admissions Anxiety Central being just outside NYC. HAve some long talks with your D about opting out of the rat race altogether. What I mean by that is to look to schools that play up to the strengths in her application rather than applying to all the usual suspects that her friends are applying to and that her friends parents are insisting that they apply to. Now is the time to circumvent that thinking before she falls in love with only overly competitive schools or the bragging starts.</p>

<p>Frankly, her freshman grades will hurt her at schools where adcoms are scratching for anything to separate applicants, especially coupled with geography, because at some point she will be compared with her peers in the NYC area. So why apply to more than one of those schools, when there are so many other great places. </p>

<p>Tufts and Maryland are a great start at this pattern of thinking - are there other state schools that she likes? What about other areas of the country? What does she like about these 2 schools and what are other similar choices? Get her involved in the finances side, too. If you make the search into a hunt for merit money, then that puts a whole different focus on the list. A year or so ago there was a parent who posted about going that route with his son. He basically made a deal with son that money would go into a graduate school fund if merit money was found for college. The self-starting son took that challenge and turned it into a sort of beat the market game (must work better with boys, my D wouldn't do it). He didn't end up with a full ride, but he did end up with a solid scholarship at an excellent school and a nest egg for grad school. Obviously this approach works best with focused kids and kids that have fairly solid career plans.</p>

<p>Having said all this, what if she loves Harvard? Well she should apply. She just shouldn't apply only to highly competitive schools - and one safety. Set yourself up to be a winner in this process by listening to what is important to you and important for you. Very necessary to be sure of your goals and desires in a school, to hold on to when all that external pressure about "I'm going to Ivy X" and "My darling Murgatroyd has been accepted to SNooty school Y". Just say NO!</p>

<p>I don't think Freshman grades will have any effect. I agree her SATs will help her decide the right places to apply, but if they are high I think she should reach a high. By next year she may feel more comfortable at places like the ivies or top tier. </p>

<p>Seems to me all parents are type triple A....at least in Conn area. It would be refreshing to get away from them, but where?</p>

<p>All are relative. As long as she has done her best, what else could you ask for? In my case, DS is a freshman and DD is a junior. None of them have ever never bring home a report card with a B on it since first grade, with their most challenging class load.</p>

<p>BTW, since you said your DD is a junior, what is her PSAT score? That could give some indication what her SAT would be.</p>

<p>Thanks so much for all of your kind words and advice. This is all so very daunting. She really is a great kid. My husband and I are amazed that a student as motivated and hardworking as she is has to feel that she's not "good enough" for the best schools. And trust me when I tell you that our school district feeds into that.</p>

<p>She scored 184 on the PSAT with no preparation. She will be taking an SAT prep course and will most likely study her butt off (that's what she does) so I assume she'll raise that a few hundred points. She also wants to take a couple SAT II tests (Math and Spanish - two of her strengths.)</p>

<p>She doesn't seem to want to leave the Northeast so at this point we don't even know where else to look, other than the 6 schools we've seen. We'll be talking to her school college counselor after mid-terms for more guidance. </p>

<p>paying3tuitions: D has been a teaching Asst at our temple since 8th grade and currently is tutoring kids in Hebrew. She tried the youth group at the temple, but wasn't thrilled. She's gone on a couple of week-long service trips during the summers with a local church and loved them.</p>

<p>cangel: "College Admissions Anxiety Central " I LOVE IT!!!</p>

<p>I would second the other posters' sentiments about good SAT and SAT II scores being very helpful (isn't that always the case?!), and also doubt the freshman grades will hurt her at all.
You might also check out her favorite schools' threads here on CC -- at ED (look for posts around mid-December) and spring RD admissions times, a lot of students post their decisions and statistics. If you are in a financial position to commit to ED to a favorite or reach school, that could help too--
I wouldn't be intimidated by Cornell, either -- if she's interested, it's definitely worth a try. At our HS (also outside NYC) the students have had better luck with admissions to Cornell than to Tufts and some of the other non-ivies.<br>
Bet she will have some nice choices next year!</p>

<p>I strongly suggest that your daughter get an SAT Spanish subject test preparation book and try a sample test. The curve on the Spanish subject test is remarkably brutal (perhaps because native speakers sometimes take it?). </p>

<p>My daughter took the SAT Spanish subject test after taking an AP/IB Level 5 Spanish course. She got the highest possible scores on both the AP and IB SL tests (5 on AP; 7 on IB SL). But her Spanish subject test score was the LOWEST of all her subject test scores. From her experience, we suspect that a single error can be enough to drop a person's score as much as 40 points.</p>

<p>Of course, if your daughter is taking the Spanish test with fewer years of preparation, she would not be expected to score as high as a person who has taken AP Spanish would. Still, the curve may be a problem.</p>

<p>Math, on the other hand, is not a problem. The curve on the Level II test is quite favorable; your daughter will probably be pleased with her score. But your daughter may want to get a prep book just to see whether there are any specific topics that she wants to review. (Sometimes teachers skim over or even skip a topic, especially if it comes at the end of the year.) If she has completed precalculus, the Level II test is the right one to take -- it's mostly stuff from the precal course. </p>

<p>A basic principle of SAT II test strategy is to NEVER assume that your child's high school has taught everything that is covered by the test. Often, the high school curriculum was not designed with the SAT II in mind. It is prudent for a student to buy a review book and try a sample test before taking one of these tests in ANY subject. For example, a couple of hours with an SAT II Chemistry review book made it obvious to my daughter that even though she had the highest average in her chemistry class, she should not take this test. There were many, many questions that covered topics her teacher had not taught, and when she took a practice test, she scored in the low 600s. It also doesn't hurt to find out how other kids at your child's high school have done on a particular test or to even ask teachers whether the school's curriculum is a good match for a particular test. Sometimes, teachers will even announce this publicly. For example, my daughter's Honors Physics teacher told the kids on the first day of the course that the county's prescribed curriculum (which is what he is required to teach) omits some topics that are on the SAT II Physics test. There might be similar situations at your child's high school.</p>

<p>lspf72 mentioned Cornell and the intimidation factor. I went to Cornell (back when dinosaurs roamed the Arts Quad) and my daughter (the same one who was disappointed with her Spanish SAT II score) will be starting there next fall (she was admitted Early Decision). The only parts of Cornell that are inordinately intimidating are the life sciences (where legions of overprepared premedical and preveterinary students who desperately need A's do devastating things to the curves in the basic science courses) and maybe engineering, where a lot of the students are truly brilliant. In my experience, the only students at Cornell who really suffer from the intimidation/competition thing are those who are not pre-med or pre-vet but who are requried to take many of the same courses that the pre-meds and pre-vets take (for example, nutrition majors who intend to go into dietetics). These kids have to compete with the most intense students on campus. But if your daughter's interests are unrelated to life sciences (or engineering), I do not think that she would find Cornell to be an unusually intimidating place. I know that my daughter, who plans to major in economics, isn't worried at all. (Of course, she intends to satisfy her science requirement with something like astronomy or geology, which pre-meds and pre-vets don't take. She is not a masochist.)</p>

<p>Marian - Thanks for the advice about the SAT II. I think she'll be okay in Math, but from what you said about Spanish, I'm not so sure. She's doing extremely well in Spanish IV H, but now I'm thinking she probably shouldn't take the subject test at least until next year when she's taking AP Spanish, if at all. The dilemma becomes, what SAT Subject course does she take, since Math and Spanish are really the only ones she has a good chance (or so I thought) of doing well on.</p>

<p>Momnewtothis, you and your D should also consider the ACT. Most schools (even Eastern ones) accept the ACT or the SAT I and 2 or 3 SAT IIs. Many students consider ACT easier and do better on that test.</p>

<p>Other parents: Help me out here. I don't know that much about it.</p>

<p>It's possible that your daughter's Spanish curriculum is really good, and that she doesn't have a problem. Also, if she takes the test after only taking Level 4, nobody is going to expect her to get an 800. 700 would be a fine result for her, although it would be a disappointment to a student who had completed Level 5. I just wanted to recommend that she try a sample test (preferably one where the results can be converted into a numerical score) so that there would be no surprises.</p>

<p>Students need to complete their SAT II tests by fall of their senior year, so there isn't a whole lot of difference between taking the test in June and taking it in, say, November. Also, many colleges look only at the two highest SAT subject test scores, so if your daughter takes two tests in the spring and is disappointed by one of her scores, she could always pick a third subject to study for over the summer and then take that test in the fall.</p>

<p>VeryHappy - Do you know whether the ACT and 2 SAT Subject tests equals SAT 1 and 2 SAT Subject tests? Does anyone else?</p>

<p>This is all really confusing. I'm hoping her college counselor at the HS will help us with all this, but this is his first year doing this.....</p>

<p>"It's possible that your daughter's Spanish curriculum is really good, and that she doesn't have a problem. Also, if she takes the test after only taking Level 4, nobody is going to expect her to get an 800. 700 would be a fine result for her, although it would be a disappointment to a student who had completed Level 5. I just wanted to recommend that she try a sample test (preferably one where the results can be converted into a numerical score) so that there would be no surprises."</p>

<p>Marian - I wouldn't expect her to get an 800 no matter what level Spanish she was in!! So the colleges to which she's applying will take into consideration which level Spanish she was taking when they look at the SAT score? (That sounds like a dumb question, I know.)</p>

<p>I think they would take her preparation into consideration, yes. </p>

<p>As for SAT vs. ACT, some colleges do not require SAT II tests of students who take the ACT. Others will allow students to substitute an ACT score for an SAT I score but still require the student to submit SAT II tests. And some don't require SAT II tests under any circumstances. Maryland, which is on your daughter's list, is one of these; when my son visited and someone asked a question at the information session about SAT II's, the admissions officer said "Take 'em if you want to; we're not going to look at them."</p>

<p>Your daughter needs to look at the Web sites of every college she plans to apply to to see exactly what tests are required. At some colleges, the requirements may even differ depending on what curriculum she is applying to. For a hideously complex example, see this page from the Cornell Web site: <a href="http://admissions.cornell.edu/downloads/freshmen_reqs_timetable.pdf%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://admissions.cornell.edu/downloads/freshmen_reqs_timetable.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>