<p>S will probably end his sophomore year pre-calc math class with a B. He had tutoring since Feb which helped. But the teacher will not let him go to Calculus next year and has instead placed him and a group of his classmates in IB Math studies (we have a hybrid program. You can take both IB/AP). She says he'll probably make it to AB Calc his senior year if he gets an A in this class. My question is how negatively will this impact his chances at some top school (outside of the top 10, but top 25)?</p>
<p>If we’re not talking about a budding MIT applicant, no effect. Calculus (whether AB or BC) at the high school level says, “I’ve taken college prep classes.”</p>
<p>It shouldn’t have much impact at all – if he gets an A in IB Math Studies next year and then does well in AP Calc AB senior year. AP Calc AB puts him right where most applicants to the top colleges are when they apply. A few will have NO calc (often because their school does not offer it) and some will have taken AP Calc BC or even a higher level math course. </p>
<p>If your son had to have tutoring to get a B in pre-calc and the teacher feels he is not ready to go directly to Calc next year, then another year of math before taking AP Calc definitely sounds like the appropriate path.</p>
<p>Thanks for the reassurance. I am concerned because a number of his peers will probably continue to AB/BC calc next year. It’s a competitive district.</p>
<p>The other thing that annoys me a bit is that in the other sister class to the one he is in right now, A’s were much easier to get because the teacher used a lot of group tests, and other ways to improve one’s grade. So these people are going on to Calc including one of his friends who, according to my son is not better than him at math. But c’est la vie, I guess.</p>
<p>Calculus is a 12th grade class, and pre-calc is an 11th grade class. So your son is actually ahead of the curve by taking pre-calc as a sophomore!</p>
<p>GROUP TESTS?!! :eek:</p>
<p>As marite noted, he is ahead of the curve. If he wants to be further ahead of the curve, he might look into a Calculus class at the local community college or via distance ed. But unless he’s headed for an Engineering/Math/Science specialty, imho that would probably be overkill.</p>
<p>Agree with LMNOP – group tests, weird. Sounds like somebody’s trying to pad the kiddo’s grades just a wee bit.</p>
<p>Giving an easier precalc course in high-school isn’t doing your students a favor. They are more likely to crash and burn in college. My son sees a lot of kids in college that really don’t have the precalc fundamentals trying to get through calc 2 in college. Rushing through can cause bigger problems down the road.</p>
<p>Unless your student is planning on an engineering/science career at the top schools, this sequencing should be fine, especially if the HS record is bolstered by a few honors/AP classes in lab sciences. If the teacher is known to be a good one, I’d say go with his/her assessment. It works both ways. Our S’s AP Calc teacher sophomore year suggested our S might consider a math course more rigorous than AP Stats. So S took and did well with the CTY distance learning class in Linear Algebra, and will follow on this year with Mulivariable Calc. HOWEVER, my S is likely to be an engineering/science major.</p>
<p>Group tests does sound odd … at the HS level. However, at the country’s best engineering/science schools (think MIT, Cal Tech and the like) it is VERY common, likely expected, that problem sets will be worked on as a group. I can’t be certain except for conversations I’ve had with those in this realm (not my area), but I believe the group approach is important for students in these fields to (1) ensure they have some basic social skills (sometimes a bit weak for some in these fields) and (2) begin to train students for group projects that will be common fare in many areas of employment that will seek their skill sets.</p>
<p>^ Problem sets – yes, absolutely. Tests – I’m not so sure about that, even in colleges that strongly encourage collaborative learning. At some point, they have to measure your individual performance…</p>
<p>Figures on how many high school students take AP calculus tests before twelfth grade: </p>
<p>[David</a> Bressoud’s Launchings from the CUPM Curriculum Guide](<a href=“http://www.maa.org/columns/launchings/launchings_05_07.html]David”>http://www.maa.org/columns/launchings/launchings_05_07.html) </p>
<p>But of course many students who aren’t on that math track still get into great colleges.</p>
<p>Sounds like the kid isn’t particularly interested in math, the parent is just worried that the math sequence will not look “the most rigorous” when top (#11-25) colleges evaluate him. </p>
<p>I think the honest answer is: It depends on a) how many of the other kids end up taking BC calculus or higher in senior year and b) how rigorous the rest of his schedule looks like.</p>
<p>Colleges claim that they evaluate applicants “in the context of their school” which I think means that to a certain extent you are being compared against other students in your class.</p>
<p>Tokenadult, thanks for that link. I am not surprised that the number of students taking AB/BC Calculus in high school is increasing without improving recruitment of college students to math majors. What I believe may be happening is many humanities oriented students who in previous years would not have taken advanced math in school are feeling compelled to take Calculus just to prove that they have the “brain power”. I have a kid who has no great love of math but will take BC Calculus next year, basically because she wants to have the “most rigorous” curriculum. She is probably not going to take any math in college (except perhaps Statistics). She is simply more interested in other subjects.</p>
<p>Far, far better for your child to have a really solid background in math. ESPECIALLY if he wants to go into engineering. Far better for him to go to a really good school, and do well than crash and burn. Trust me – the SATs and AP classes are much more likely to be a problem for the kids in the easier class</p>
<p>SAT scores are 1,000x more important than AB vs. BC vs. whatever math. AP math is AP math. Even if he does not take AP math, if he has other strengths - strong leadership skills, strong writing skills, etc. - combined with a generally high GPA/SAT score and rigorous academic set (i.e. not 5 bajillion AP classes but maybe around 3 before applying, in other subjects), then I see no issue for your son getting into a top 25 school.</p>
<p>Unless he applies as engineering/other math heavy major, in which case that would be the only scenario that it might matter…but even so if he is smart he can self study for the SAT/math SAT IIs, and a high score on those could still nullify the course load.</p>
<p>CCers generally overestimate the difficulty of getting into a top school, from my own experience/my classmates’ experiences. Maybe it’s cuz a lot of applicants are rather cookie cutter, hyper-focused on academics and rankings, so a lower percentage of them get in vs. The Other Smart Kid. They also generally overestimate the importance, probably for the same reason, but that’s another matter.</p>
<p>Your son should take the math review as a blessing and if it’s too easy for him, all the better. An A in AB Calc is better than a C or D in BC. Plus he can focus on something that might actually make him stand out to a top college if it’s even THAT important that he gets into one…a math class won’t do that, that’s for sure.</p>
<p>Thanks all for your input. I think the Math Studies class will be best for him from what everybody is saying. He actually is interested in science and is excellent at it. He is looking at environmental science or even environmental engineering. I don’t know how many of his peers will finish with BC or even Multivariable Calc but quite a few, I am sure. He will take 6 AP/IB next year. He already took 2 this year. This is common in our area. We are from NOVA and he’ll probably apply to UVA but it’s very difficult to get in. Otherwise Va tech will probably be the ticket for him. If anyone has some other suggestions, I’d appreciate it.</p>
<p>Group tests were prevalent in D’s AP Gov’t course- but not in any math courses. Guillaume, we are also in VA- although not NOVA- D will be doing Engineering at UVA next fall. We visited Michigan, where she was also accepted, and really liked it- but the financial realities were much better for us to stay instate. Michigan has a “rolling” admissions policy- and there are actually some very generous alumni scholarships for Virginia residents as well as nice scholarships, particularly in Engineering. Pitt also has great scholarships. Even if your son decides against Engineering, both schools are strong in the sciences. Your son should apply early if he thinks either school would be a good fit for him.</p>
<p>Thanks Sabaray. Actually yes, he has thought about Michigan. Good to know that they do offer scholarships. UNC Chapel Hill is also on his radar. And for some reason Northwerstern. Don’t know why.</p>