Does that mean you are all for or against the expulsions that happen on college campuses? Did you read the article? They were expelled because her story was merely credible. See their names and faces?
As for violent, schools expel men simply for not asking their girlfriend for permission at every step.
To deal with the possibility of violence, do you suggest we do nothing, or do you suggest prison on her word?
I care very much about due prosses. Currently there is none on college campuses. That is why I suggested an alternative to marking someone’s transcript.
What solution do you suggest?
Oh, right, this is just another version of your [previous 10 page closed thread](Is affirmative consent before all sexual contact the best policy? - College Life - College Confidential Forums) on the same topic in College Life. Ew, I’m out :-q
@traveller2013 Due process doesn’t apply to every situation in life. It applies very specifically to criminal proceedings in courts of law. You’re proposing that citizens be deprived of their liberty, without trial, outside of the court system, for arbitrary periods of time. That is simply not allowed by our constitution. End of story.
This system where a man accused of rape must “earn” credibility by being progressively locked up less, reminds me of trials for witches where the pitchfork waving mob threw the accused in a pond:
Float and live = Witch
Sink and drown = Innocent
Therefore, you admit that you are just like the colleges. The colleges have no due process, and your idea has no due process, thus your idea is no improvement at all.
So, if I am a guy and I do nothing wrong, a wrongful accusation gets my transcript makes as if i am guilty of a wrongdoing? That makes sense to you? You hurt my job prospects and grad school prospects based on nothing done wrong. Well, thanks.
Never thought I would hear an idea that makes the kangaroo tribunals at colleges seem like an good thing.
My solution:
Let’s accept the premise that a certain percentage of guys (too many of them) are not on the up and up when it comes to sexual situations. If females are having so much trouble navigating the sex thing in college because male students are not being on the up and up, then stop going to guys’ rooms and making out or getting drunk with them without girlfriends around, and just hang out with females.
I am not kidding. I just do not get it. Females are talking like they have no power here - you have all the power - just never get into the situation where this could occur. Problem solved. Seems kind of stupid to me to keep going back into situations that females are saying are not good for them. Do not understand that behavior.
Be actively preventive.
I am sitting here with my college son and I read this thread to him Oh my goodness the things he had to say. But he said he wished girls were more clear about their intentions rather than just playing around. He said you never know if they are going to go crazy on you. But anyway OP you are out in left field and if you are female be part of the solution and not the problem. Fortunately nobody spends a night in jail without a smidge of evidence and so far we have granted only our legal system including investigational arms to jail people.
^ Women have the same fear. Much moreso, in fact, because generally if a man “goes crazy” on a woman, the man is going to overpower her.
And this is absolutely just not true.
So why do they keep putting themselves in that position then? I am at a lost there, as the “news” should be out by now that being in guy’s room by yourself or drunk at apart is unsafe. Hey, I got that memo, and I am a guy.
Are the females not getting the memo or are they ignoring common sense at this point and ignoring what is now common knowledge and what is taught at orientation? Something does not add up, and it is not the lack of knowing.
Yes, rape occurs. And there’s a difference between “asking for it” and just being naive/stupid. Too many college women are just being naive/stupid.
Getting stinking drunk and going up to some guy’s dormroom is about as prudent as getting stinking drunk and getting behind the wheel of a car. Bad idea…
They don’t just “keep putting themselves in that position.” Have you ever met a rape victim or somebody that has been sexually assaulted? I have and they certainly weren’t “asking for it.” That’s like saying “Why do you go to banks, where there is a statistically significant higher chance of being caught in a bank robbery?” That is the worst kind of victim blaming. Should we assume that just because you share a couple of drinks with someone that we are going to be sexually assaulted? That seems a bit unreasonable to me. How about we teach people from both genders that we need affirmative, verbal CONSENT before engaging in sexual activity. No if, buts, or maybes.
Yes, there’s a statistically higher chance of being caught in a robbery at a bank, as compared to being in Starbucks, but overall that chance is still very, very low. The chance of crap happening to you by jogging by yourself at night in a high crime neighborhood or going on vacation to North Korea is much higher.
Read my post again. I never said victims were “asking for it”. Not all rapes involve being stinking drunk, but a large number do. Prudence would dictate avoiding certain situations & venues statistically documented to facilitate ugly outcomes.
You are missing an important aspect of the thread. Please note that the OP said this:
We are talking mainly about colleges and the type of rapes that are alleged at colleges, which rarely include force or violence, but alcohol and drugs and an alleged misunderstanding of consent.
Therefore, in colleges, if women avoid getting drunk and avoid going to guys’ rooms to be alone, then the types of rapes that are the biggest issue on college campuses would largely disappear. Does not take a rocket scientist to figure that one out.
As long as females continue to do the drinking, drugs, and guys’ room unattended, there problem will continue. So, if the females continue those behaviors, then they are “putting themselves in that position.”
Learn to think preventatively, not after the fact as a victim. Learn to avoid dumb stuff that could make one a potential victim or easier target. Again, no rocket science here.
(Emphasis added)
The problem is more of the WHERE than the WHAT. It’s an inconvenient truth that some venues are a lot worse to be than others while your faculties are clouded by drink & drugs, including:
Agreed, but I was only addressing the college issue hat he OP seems very concerned with. The other rapes off of campus really are the venue for police, so I did not take that part of the OP’s idea seriously at all with the work release nonsense. For the record, I think the college rapes should be the venue of police as well, but currently that is not the case.
If sex is so precious to have and heinous to take by force, then surely it’s something valuable to be protected.
Victim-blaming is not ever going to solve this problem. How about if, instead of lecturing young women how not to be raped, we put the blame where it should be – on the rapist. When frat guys video themselves raping an unconscious girl, how is 100% of the outrage NOT focused on the rapist?
Young men need to be explicitly taught not to rape.
No kidding. But eradicating world hunger isn’t going to happen overnight either.
In the meanwhile, young women can reduce the probability of being a victim by avoiding dependably high risk places while they’re drunk.
Your approach is too passive and, even if partially successful, does nothing to help young women in the interim. Teaching takes time. It is similar to people in ghettoes waiting for government to get them out. Well, that could take a very long time and may never occur.
Your “teach young men not to rape” approach is dependent on other people taking action, which they may not take. Rape is a pathological behavior and your “do not rape” approach requires rationality. Like with all criminals, rationality is wanting in rape perpetrators and often cannot be taught. And where are the females then, as they wait around for young men to learn not to rape? In the same position of being raped. So, no help to them (females) there.
And your “teach young men not to rape” assumes a cognizant communicating environment between parties. In colleges where both people are drunk or high, it is overly optimistic to think that cognizant behavior is happening either from the female or male. To then expect that either party is in control of anything at a level where smart decisions are being taken is equivalent to whistling dixie past the graveyard.
Women need to be proactive and protect themselves from situations that make it possible for them to be potential victims, That is not victim-blaming; that is not being dependent on others for your safety. There is a huge philosophical difference. Only people who make themselves dependent on others refuse to take matters in their own hands if they are being hurt.
As I told my DS when visiting a certain city - stay out f X and Y areas because the crime rate there is very high and someone specifically like you is seen as a target. That is just common sense, i.e., do not go into places where there are high chances of running into the wrong people who see you as a convenient target. Doubly so if going to such places when one is drunk, unaccompanied, and not in your own right mind.
Not sure why women think that teaching younger females such common sense is called victim-blaming. It is pretty shallow to teach young women that their safety lies in the hands of others. No, female safety starts with themselves and that starts with being in your right mind when in places where one knows there may be ill-intentioned people. Anything else means you just become a bystander in your own life - a sure recipe to be unhappy with the results.