Would you agree? (Acceptance Decision Altercation at Harvard)

Prep School Admissions
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<p>"Harvard Business School (HBS) has rejected 119 applicants who allegedly "hacked" in to a third-party site to learn whether HBS had admitted them...Some applicants' admit/reject letters were already available on the ApplyYourself website. There were no hyperlinks to the letters, but a student who was logged in to the site could access his/her letter by constructing a special URL... Harvard has now summarily rejected all of them, calling their action a breach of ethics."</p>

<p>This happened a while ago(in 2005), and what made me think of it was an email I got from a HADES school about why the admissions decision isn't online(for their particular school). </p>

<p>Lets say that you had the chance to see your letter, would you? If you didn't, but you heard of students that were rejected after recieving and acceptance letter, would you agree with the actions of the school?
(This is assuming you didn't know the punishment and you havn't read the article)</p>

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<p>that's interesting, i certainly would want to see my letter if I could but I wouldn't put the effort of "hacking" into a website if I knew the letter would be coming soon anyways</p>

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<p>One guy hacked it. The other people just read it off a board(Much like this one...)</p>

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<p>hotchkissjin, which school?</p>

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<p>Lol, Tom that's a joke right ?</p>

<p>And I agree with Harvard's decision completely. If we can't let Richard Nixon off the hook for this type of behavior why should we let some college kids off ? Veritas stands clear from error.</p>

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<p>Oops, meant Italianboarder, and I was wondering which school emailed him to tell him that they wouldn't offer online decision reporting. I'm applying to three HADES schools so I was wondering if one of the schools was one I was applying to. Whoops :}</p>

<p>Interesting decision though. These kids just wanted to know if they got into HBS; I doubt they had any malicious intentions, and I'd hardly call typing in a special URL hacking</p>

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<p>Um, "constructing a special URL" constitutes "hacking"? That's insane. And it's ridiculous (and appalling) that a site of that sort would be so easy to "hack". HBS should find another company to handle their admit/reject letters.</p>

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<p>Harvard</a> Business School Boots 119 Applicants for "Hacking" Into Admissions Site | Freedom to Tinker</p>

<p>I forgot to link it... Sorry.</p>

<p>Another tid bit:
"As the article suggests, this is an easy opportunity for HBS (and MIT and CMU, who did the same thing) to grandstand about business ethics, at low cost (since most of the applicants in question would have been rejected anyway). Stanford, on the other hand, is reacting by asking the applicants who viewed their Stanford letters to come forward and explain themselves. Now that's a real ethics test."</p>

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<p>What exactly is the breach of ethics that the applicants committed? I presume that they were not looking for other people's records since one's logon id and password were required to contruct the URL. They were looking for information about themselves. What is unethical about that? </p>

<p>I could see HBS taking action against the company that handles their letters, but it doesn't seem they have any real justification for denying previously admitted applicants for exploiting a weakness in a 3rd party's system to find out their status. </p>

<p>If the applicants were trying to influence admissions decisions, find out information about other applicants, or lying on their applications; I could see the justification for a "breach of ethics." But not this.</p>

<p>Were any law suits filed over this?</p>

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<p>Way too bold! If I were a Harvard admin, red lights would go off - whether or not an ethical violation. If I were a Cal Tech admin, I'd be chuckling.</p>

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<p>Someone anonymously posts how you can review your admissions information before the school is ready to release it, and you take advantage of this system weakness, and that is not unethical? If it is not unethical in shows extremely poor judgment on the part of the applicants. I think they dissevered to be rejected, they knew that what they were doing was not condoned by the schools and was wrong. This hyperlink was something they created just so that could "hack" into this system and review their letters. This is a great example of doing the right thing even when no one is looking and in my opinion these people failed.</p>

<p>How many "business leaders" exploited a weakness in the system to loan billons of dollars to people who could not afford the loans? How many people accepted loans they could not afford because of weaknesses in the system</p>

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<p>But the students weren't gaining anything from the information other than whether they'd been accepted or not. They were not using the information to their advantage or the school's detriment. I think that is the factor which determines whether something is ethical or not. If the students were looking for decisions on others, then I would consider it an ethical breach because it is priviledged information.</p>

<p>It's nothing like the foreclosure crisis. That is a combination of stupid public policy and greed with all parties trying to gain an advantage over another....and therein lies the rub. I don't see how the applicants were trying to gain any advantage.</p>

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<p>I think gaining access to information the school has not yet released, before other applicants, is an advantage. So can those students hack into the computer network to see their grades, even if they do not change them?</p>

<p>I think the attitude that would lead one to take advantage of this system weakness is very similar to our current financial crisis, because a lot of people did nothing illegal, but they exploited weaknesses that existed to their advantage.</p>

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<p>Typing a URL is hardly "hacking", in any sense of the word. If a given set of information is available simply by typing the correct sequence of characters into a browser's address bar, it is not secure information. At all. </p>

<p>It seems to me that HBS should have more of a problem with ApplyYourself than with the applicants.</p>

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<p>Oh, also...the thing I imagine HBS is upset with the applicants about is that it constitutes a breach of trust. That is, as a student, or a potential student, you are expected to not pry where you have not been given permission. And that's certainly understandable. But I don't think it's because there was any sort of advantage gleaned by knowing one's acceptance/rejection status before other students.</p>

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<p>Ok, my wife made an excellent point to me about how it could be to an applicant's advantage to know his or her acceptance status before other students. And yes, that makes finding it out in such a manner unethical.</p>

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<p>So can those students hack into the computer network to see their grades, even if they do not change them?</p>

<p>just a tidbit for this.. students don't even need to hack these days. edline is amazing (and conversely, aggravating) in that it shows updated scores typed in by your teachers to see your progress report throughout the year. now, of course, depending on how lazy your teacher is, you may not see it as often, but nonetheless, you don't need to hack for this. in fact, this is enforced in many school; showing grades to parents, checking grades and telling teachers about errors in grades, etc etc</p>

<p>i don't think it's so huge that there should be rejection involved. of course it gave you bragging rights for i don't know, a couple months, but really, what after that?
if someone posted on CC (and let's assume we never read this article), an authentic non-trolling person and someone pretty well-regarded in the forum, that you could find acceptance/rejection/waitlist letters if you just went to this link and typed in your id, then wouldn't you? if the link traced back to exeter's website, or st pauls' homepage, wouldn't you? here's why some people would (i would hesitate on the login account, just because i'm wary of things like that, but still); to prove that this is a hoax, a complete hoax and for people to not even bat an eye at the forum. because no genius can hack a school system! gone are the nerd days where that existed out of the movies.
but let's say it's real. let's say you got yourself in this when you were so confident that this wasn't real.
and let's say you got accepted. WHEEEEE! oh, but isn't this kinda weird? knowing two months before everyone else? well, i guess i won't tell anyone.</p>

<p>but in a week, sps releases a newsletter by email that if you have done something of this manner, you are rejected. and a personal email telling YOU, personally, that you have been rejected.</p>

<p>honestly, you just wanted to disprove the person who posted the link.</p>

<p>i have a feeling that a couple rejected students were in this situation.</p>

<p>but again, my opinion. no one else's, this opinion is not obligatory amongst other cc members</p>

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<p>westcoast, I can see the scenario you've described happening. </p>

<p>Furthermore, I trust that if Skidad's wife sees some kind of advantage in knowing early, then there is one and it would therefore be unethical.</p>

<p>Whether it is unethical or not comes down to intent, and I don't see how HBS could know the intent of those 112 applicants. To paint them all with one brush seems, to me anyway, unethical.</p>

<p>On a similar note: two of my son's teachers offered to show him their recs before they were sent. He told them that they were supposed to be confidential and that he trusted them to be fair. Now, he could have used this to his advantage. He could have read the recs and tried to mitigate any negative comments they may have contained. OR, he could have read the recs and agonized over the comments until March 10th and then either thanked them, or quietly blamed them - depending on whether he was admitted or denied. One would have been unethical, the other would have been deserved self-torment. </p>

<p>Gaining access to priviledged information is stupid no matter what the intent is. If you are privvy to something that no one knows you know, you put yourself in a bad situation - one that can very well force a moral dilemma. "Ignorance is bliss."</p>

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<p>Post #9: Where were you when O.J. needed defense counsel?</p>

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<p>It wasn't a "third party site", in that Harvard, and the other business schools, had a contract with the operators to post results online. The argument, "but it wasn't really secured" doesn't fly with me. That's analogous to saying, "well, I was able to open the door with a credit card, so it wasn't really locked."</p>

<p>I understand that the temptation to peek must have been overwhelming. The graduates of HBS represent Harvard, however. If they are caught doing anything unethical in their professional career, it will reflect badly on Harvard. Admission to Harvard Business School is an honor and a privilege, not a right. The students hadn't been admitted. They were poking around the online site well before the date set to notify candidates. Some of the candidates might have been in the "admit" pile, until they gave in to temptation. Then, their behavior gave admissions a reason to move them into the "reject" pile.</p>