Would you pay for ANY major?

Parent Cafe
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<p>Jonri wrote in #393, “There are some degrees I would not pay for if a particular student wanted to enroll in them”.</p>

<p>Responding to your post before reading any others after it…get ready to get blasted by some key posters here as I did Jonri!</p>

<p>You’ve logically pointed out that certain majors leave the student a very small likelihood of success in that field. I suggested the same, and therefore that those students consider adding a more traditionally marketable 2nd major as a back up plan just in case they don’t hit that home run in that dream field. And that I wouldn’t pay $50K+ per year for a limited major like Winemaking at Cornell…especially when a full pay or heavy take-out-loans situation (a full ride somewhere would be a different story as it wouldn’t hurt a family’s finances).</p>

<p>Summarizing, the responses I got were effectively:</p>

<p>—I can’t limit my child’s dream
—I have many friends that are amazingly successful with Art History, Greek Mythology, etc degrees.
—I know CEO’s of major corporations that majored in Art History, English Lit, etc.
—Winemaking is a great career in certain areas of the US
—That in suggesting the above I’m all about money, money, money.</p>

<p>Yes, I agree there’s a need for art, music, theater, etc in the world, BUT a high percentage of folks in those majors don’t end up making it in those tough fields with limited employment. Given that, shouldn’t they play the odds and (1) consider a 2nd major in addition to that one that opens up potential jobs in additional fields, and (2) minimize debt by not going with the NYU’s of the world at $60K per year (for majors where you’re not apt to make nearly enough to justify that high tuition/room/board) but instead some solid in-state university at perhaps 1/3 the cost?</p>

<p>Good golly! We’re parents, so shouldn’t we help our kids maximize their chance of success (let’s say via gainful employment in their major of choice) by maximizing the odds?</p>

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<p>Heh–meet D1. :slight_smile: Started freshman year of college as an IR major, enrolled in a CS intro course because the prof has a great reputation and she had space in her schedule. Had never programmed before, but fell in love with the subject. Now heading into her junior year, probably will finish as a CS major (though there’s a chance she’ll switch back to an IR major and take a CS minor).</p>

<p>The thing is that D1 is not so unique in coming to CS “late”. That’s especially true for females, who are generally less likely to have been programming (let alone building hardware) since they were wee lassies. mythmom, I know you didn’t intend it this way, but the stereotype of all CS majors having started with computers at an early age makes it that much harder to encourage late bloomers to give the subject a try.</p>

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<p>In terms of post-baccalaureate opportunities and outcomes, whether measured by successful careers or personal satisfaction, other factors can be more important than major…</p>

<p>I recall hearing that being a varsity athlete seemed as, if not more, important than whatever the student’s major was… other extra-curricular activities with “leadership” qualities also seemed more important than major.</p>

<p>Furthermore, developing good relationships is critical and has nothing to do with academic majors…</p>

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<p>Unfortunately, getting steady employment in theatre, isn’t just tied to talent, but marketablility.</p>

<p>Can you dance? Can you belt? Do you have a look that is marketable as an ingenue or her funny best friend? Do you have an ethnic look? Are you short, tall, slender or broad? Young looking or sexy looking?</p>

<p>D is pretty and talented, but after seeing the NY theatre scene up close as an NYU Vocal Performance (music theatre) student, she decided to step back and be real about her chances of earning a decent living at theatre. And also her desire to do so.</p>

<p>So as a new graduate last year, she decided to go a different route. She has not gone on any auditions, but instead has gone the entertainment business route. She is happy and seems headed in the right direction. It is an option that she prepared for as a student, even though she majored in performance.</p>

<p>To back track, not only did I “allow” my D to be a musical theatre major, I somewhat encouraged it. I knew that her talent would separate her from other kids who were top 5% with good SAT’s and leadership. And it worked. She got merit money from NYU for talent. (And a bunch of other schools like GW, American, Brandeis and Muhlenberg.) Since she was full pay otherwise–and her final choice was between NYU and Barnard–I told her to take advantage of the $45K savings offered by NYU as it could cover about a year of grad school if she chose that path later. It was important to me that she receivd her 4 year degree from a school with a good reputation in NYC, since it would make her more marketable to the business world than if she graduated from a strong theatre program in a relatively unknown school without presige. I encouraged her to get a BM degree so that she could teach (music) if she wanted to someday with a year of grad school. </p>

<p>She knew from the start that a business career was a real possiblility, so she chose to have a business minor through Stern and Tisch that centered on the entertainment industry and an English minor to hone her analytical and wriitng skills.</p>

<p>Throughout school and during the summer, she worked hard at internships at SONY, Dreamworks, for a major producer, for an iconic singer, and for the mayors office in their entertainment dept. She worked assisting in marketing, pr and development.</p>

<p>Upon graduation she first worked as an apprentice for a major broadway casting agency and now is employed as an assistant at a top talent agency in their theatre department.</p>

<p>She is not making a huge salary by any means, but has the potential to down the road. She may entertain the thought of going to law school someday or for her MBA, but not as of now. </p>

<p>She would love to be a cabaret singer on the side and would perhaps consider auditioning someday as an older charachter actress. She hopes to make enough money to keep up with voice lessons. </p>

<p>My point is that in my opinion her major allowed her to have a specialty or a hook in the business world. A major in college is only the beginning of a possible career path. It does not necessarily define it. And it can be augmented by internships, networking and experience in the field that may weigh just as heavily.</p>

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<p>SlitheyTove: No I didn’t mean that way, but I certainly am happy to stand corrected. Congratulations to your D.</p>

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<p>uskoolfish, my oldest daughter is an agent with a Manhattan talent group that focuses on Broadway. She has a degree in political science, and her colleagues have degrees in everything from Musical Theatre, like your D, to French, to economics. Sure you have to spend a couple of years proving yourself working for peanuts (mine did it in props with a Shakespeare Theatre affiliated with her alma mater), but the point is, you can take any Liberal Arts/Humanities degree and segue into the business side of the arts if you are willing to climb up from the bottom. And what an exciting business it is – my daughter is at Broadway shows 3 or 4 nights a week , and opening night parties with the likes of Stevie Wonder and Scarlett Johansen. Although I tend to be a very pragmatic person, I didn’t worry what she would do with the poli sci degree after she decided law school wasn’t for her – I knew she would do something.</p>

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<p>“Good golly! We’re parents, so shouldn’t we help our kids maximize their chance of success (let’s say via gainful employment in their major of choice) by maximizing the odds?”</p>

<p>No we should recite stories of our own experiences from 30 years ago that have nothing to do with today’s market place. Then recall the 1 person you know who has their own reality show and was a sociology major. Then keep reciting these stats as facts and get in lemmings line and be prepared to walk over the cliff.</p>

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<p>Today’s marketplace is MORE creative and innovative than yesterday’s marketplace. This is the era of Wired and Fast Company. Even more reason not to be restrictive but to be expansive in thinking.</p>

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<p>It is also more competitive for those with bachelor’s degrees. When bachelor’s degree attainment was 10-20%, having one stood out more than now when it is 30%.</p>

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<p>No, let’s pretend there are only 3 or 4 disciplines that have any shot at a good life, that all that pesky humanities stuff is for the losers who aren’t good at math and science or business. That we NEED the arts, as long as someone ELSE’S poor parents are duped into spending the money on their kids attaining degrees in those arts. That we can predict the perfect career for our kids 40 years down the road. That there are certain disciplines that will NEVER experience slowdowns or over-supply. That it’s our God-given right to force our kids into careers and lives that we think they MUST have, and that we get to pat ourselves on the back for having done this for (read:TO) them.</p>

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<p>sseamon, Geez, Where are all these people that think that “pesky humanities stuff is for the losers” or that are FORCING their kids into majors? I’ve seen little evidence of that on this thread or in real life.</p>

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<p>I do see subtle evidence of that attitude. And the thing that is being ignored, though posters say they aren’t, is that a kid does best in the field he/she has aptitude. In the mythical Woebegon where all kids are above average they can all do anything. I elect for my kid to be Steve Jobs and my daughter to be Martha Stewart. (haha she hates Martha Stewart and so do I.)</p>

<p>Or I elect for my kid to work for NASA or go into space or be an accountant (ADD son would daydream the entire work day away.)</p>

<p>But none of that is relevant. </p>

<p>Kids should figure out what they’re good at and what career trajectory works for their temperament; and yes, parents can have input.</p>

<p>My kid made quite a few movies as a director and as an actor while in high school. I sent his reels to a friend who did lighting in Hollywood, and she thought he had talent and was perfect on camera. He said he didn’t want to have to audition. Actor scratched off the list.</p>

<p>I can’t put my overly forthright daughter into sales. She’s say, “you’re overspending.”</p>

<p>I think we have to put kids in whichever discipline allows them to work hard and excel, because honestly, in the world we have now, everyone has to work very hard to gain a place unless one is Paris Hilton or very lucky.</p>

<p>I am grateful that they each have found something that demands, allows and encourages them to give 100%.</p>

<p>It’s easy to fail at the wrong thing even if society is clamoring for it. </p>

<p>I won’t give anymore anecdotal evidence because that seems to be annoying people.</p>

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<p>The idea of aptitude, talent has been brought up many times.</p>

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<p>I’ve seen relatives and neighbors look condescending and dismissive when we’ve talked about a potential philosophy major. These people (in my life, anyway) are either Wall Street types who want their kids making big money over any other life goal, or country bumpkins who look at college as job training.</p>

<p>I teach college sociology at a state school that primarily serves kids from blue collar families, and in my criminal justice-related class, students ask when they are going to learn to “dust for fingerprints”. They are the first in their families to got to college, and have no concept of learning to become a more informed citizen – just to get a specific job. When I told a friend (someone who never went to college) that I taught a class about violence (gangs, domestic violence, capital punishment) she said “People actually PAY to take a class like that, and someone earns CREDIT for that??” She didn’t know anything about college.</p>

<p>A friend’s daughter was just accepted into an Ivy combined medical program (2% acceptance rate), but Mom decided to turn it down because “a nurse practioner can make just as much as a pediatrician” (her daughter’s anticipated field). Never mind the expereince of this particular Ivy, the “calling” to become a physician – everything decided on dollars.</p>

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I think that’s exactly right. Unfortunately, that attitude isn’t universal - at least, not if all the media sob stories about “underemployed” grads are to be believed.</p>

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<p>Clearly, in making a decision about what path to take, one has to balance:
(1) talent/aptitude;
(2) interest/motivation; and
(3) job opportunities. </p>

<p>Items (2) and (3) can vary considerably over time, while (1) probably varies less.</p>

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<p>Unlike this forum population that seems opposed to the idea that college has anything to do with getting a better job, the majority of college students are there to upgrade their job and career prospects (yes, this includes those in various non-job-and-career-specific liberal arts majors as well as the two thirds of college students in overtly pre-professional majors). The incentive to go to college for the job prospects may be especially important for those from middle or low SES families who may not have the connections that high SES families have, or the capability to provide some support to a new graduate who has a hard time getting the first job.</p>

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<p>The vocational track thinking is precisely what keeps my students down.</p>

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<p>There’s an easy test for this. Ask a new high school grad what, in their opinion, is the best job they could realistically expect to get right now, with their current skillset. Then ask whether they would be content if that is the job they get after graduating from college. If the answer is no, then career prospects are an important part of their objective in pursuing higher education (whether they will admit that or not).</p>

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<p>Mine prepared for law school and was accepted into a respected fairly low cost public. Her plan worked perfectly. Got too grade, especially in Con law and oral argument, but that was all she liked. Nuts and bolts of law bored her, but worse, second semester she could not wrap her head sound it at all. I know she tried. Her American Studies major didnt seem to prepare her for anything else. But now she is supporting herself in a funded PhD program in American legal history, a new and growing field she can only do because of that law school year. She’s been told by all her profs that she should be very hirable, and she will be considered for a very well paid museum fellowship next year.</p>

<p>Nothing is wasted.</p>

<p>If course college has a vocational component, but the best education happens at a meta-level. One can learn to dust for fingerprints in an hour. However, understanding the relationship of gangs to violence may take more than one semester. One trains a student to be a beat cop; the other trains a student to be police commissioner.</p>

<p>A very small percentage of vocational education yields immediate high financial results, but that is not the norm.</p>

<p>Living in NY we saw a lot of very young millionaires born on the trading floor in the nineties, but almost all of that wealth has evaporated.</p>

<p>There are so many issues to consider. Is the kid a risk taker? A leader? Very diligent? Imaginative? There can be no one-size-fits-all solution.</p>

<p>And yes, although aptitude has been brought up, it has also been subtly dismissed with suggestions that we can direct our kids into lucrative careers.</p>

<p>I think we can help them learn pragmatism, diligence, discipline, prudence, persistence and intregity. My list for my kid would also include empathy and kindness. With those character traits how could they not succeed, even with mistakes and false starts and gasp! A philosophy major.</p>