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not sur ehwat hte point
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is this a joke? if it was unintentional, it is hilarious.</p>
<p>wow. that is kinda funny.</p>
<p>"for grammar, you just memorize a small set of very easy rules. To be truly good at math takes reasoning skills that are a lot more.... difficult to attain."</p>
<p>WHAT??? i think you have it the other way around. It is statistically much harder to do good on the verbal section because it requires more logic. Math is the one that requires you only to know the formulas.</p>
<p>That's bull. I always frown on the people that learn math and science through memorization. In my physics class, there were two sets of people: the people who got it, and the people who just memorized formulas but never understood teh concept. I can tell you RIGHT now who's gonna do better in higher math/science.</p>
<p>I'm sorry but writing/verbal is much more important in general. Any job that requires a college degree requires the ability to write and communicate. Math acumen is only more important when math itself is prominent in the career. Math does convey a sense of logic and numbers which are likely mandatory for a job in say, business.
West Side: Math may be the key to the future, but that does not mean everyone must know it to the nth level. A cursory control of math is all that is necessary for most.
You clearly lack the intelligence to make the distinction between jobs for which math is integral and those for which it is not.
I am a prospective engineer, but also a realist.</p>
<p>I'd venture the claim that both are equally important.</p>
<p>Mathematics may hold modern society together, but the best mathematician in the world would be a failure if he didn't have the verbal skills to communicate his ideas. </p>
<p>Both grammar and mathematics are inherently based in logic. Neither can be learned successfully from mere memorization. BOTH ARE NECESSARY IN LIFE.</p>
<p>This whole discussion is, for lack of a better word, silly.</p>
<p>0_o i wouldnt say that since the 99.999999999999999999991% SAT'er made it.</p>
<p>ElCommando -- You're right; who am I to insult that kind of intellect?</p>
<p>Yes, both are necessary but which is more important?</p>
<p>Grammar is necessary so that people can conform to one set of communication and expression. However, it becomes the case that grammar rules may in fact restrict personal expression and style. For instance, look at Ernest Hemingway or Edgar Allen Poe. They were amazing contributors to literature, however, no one would say that they had "proper" grammar.</p>
<p>Now, it is clear to me that Math skills are about 100 times more important than Grammar skills. The ability to write thought invoking, inspirational writing is in my opinion is a very important skill set, however, that ability is also at least 5 times greater than grammar skills.</p>
<p>Its a balance. If we go ahead and say to society : Hey, grammar is as important as math. Then helloo... u are playing politics with intelligence, in the end we will all lose. FIN.</p>
<p>West Side, I guarantee you that both Hemingway and Poe could have written with perfect grammar if they wanted to do so. I also guarantee that great rappers such as Tupac Shakur could speak with perfect English if they chose. It is cliche but true: you must know the rules before you can break them. Picasso needed to learn to paint with photographic realism before he could move to the abstract. </p>
<p>To say that learning rules is unimportant because you must break them to be innovative is a poor and lazy argument.</p>
<p>As for the overall debate, I would say that as tested on the SAT, grammar is more important, but with regard to real skills, math is much more important. Math, as tested on the SAT, is practically worthless; it is all about numbers and formulas. Most people do not need numbers for very much in their life. Real math is about precision of logic, and you cannot get anywhere without it.</p>
<p>Math. Grammar is human convention and could end up as one of millions of ways. There is a grammar for every language and frankly, I don't like learning something that tells absoltuely nothing about the universe.</p>
<p>But math, there is only one universal language. It enlightens us about the universe's secrets.</p>
<p><<-- Under Feynman's influence</p>
<p>Math on the SAT is essentially applied logic. Without logic, we wouldn't be debating this worthless question. Therefore, math is the prerequisite to everything, and obviously more important!</p>
<p>^ agreed. Math is the foundation for all other ways of thinking, in logic, engineering, science, etc...</p>
<p>While grammar is important, as important as the ability to brush your teeth properly, it is nowhere as important as math. Not even close. And the decision by the college board to push this version through is simply going to set off a domino chain that most you cannot see that will make the bridges in this country fall, technology stagnate, and Asia will definitely take over the reigns of power faster than one thinks now that all we care about is "grammar". Wut a joke.</p>
<p>
[quote]
And the decision by the college board to push this version through is simply going to set off a domino chain that most you cannot see that will make the bridges in this country fall, technology stagnate, and Asia will definitely take over the reigns of power faster than one thinks now that all we care about is "grammar".
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I sincerely hope you're not serious. If you are--it's things like this that make me lose faith in humanity.</p>
<p>I think it's been made pretty clear that math on the SAT is the easiest section to study for. The writing exists to make a distinction between all the math 800s--because, you know, in real life (as opposed to in this question) people can actually be good at more than one thing. Who would you rather have? Someone who is great at math but can't complete a sentence, or someone who excels at both?</p>
<p>My father sometimes evaluates internship applications at the Swedish Embassy. As part of the application, the prospectives are made to write a one-page summary of a political report. You'd be surprised at the number of (otherwise brilliant) applicants he rejects because their writing samples are atrocious.</p>
<p>We lived in a technological world, yes, but also a communicative one. We depend on words for news, entertainment, and all kinds of information. Without grammar, there would be chaos. Nothing would get across.</p>
<p>Besides, a mathematician may design a bridge, but without grammar, how would he communicate his ideas to the construction crew? (Oh, and do forgive me for assuming the male pronoun. It's easier.)</p>
<p>Grammar, in its essence, is really nothing but the logic of a language. I would've thought that all you structured intellectuals appreciated that.</p>
<p>^ Like I said, its important to brush your teeth, but its more important to be smart.</p>
<p>Face it, boys-math ability is far more of a learned skill than just some inherent measure of intelligence. I'm not surprised that this thread is biased one way, because the stats are what? 6,900 verbal 800s, 50/50 male female, 10,500 math 800s, 2/3 male? Something like that in years past I seem to recall... Math ability may be impressive and make you feel intellectually superior, but for the truly intellectually superior among you math aces, you've already realized that it's not everything, and that verbal is justifiably important to your overall SAT score. Personally, I would prefer to be better at verbal because if you are going by the numbers alone, it's a much more selective group. Also, there are so many people who are good at math that it's more competitive and in my opinion, just less impressive. It's also been my experience that verbal scores tend to correlate with general intelligence levels much more accurately than math scores for low scorers, who may raise their math scores more easily. </p>
<p>Just think about it-everyone who is a native english speaker, or human being for that matter, has been exposed to language from birth. It is a large part of intelligence to be able to learn and use language effectively, and something you can never choose not to learn or stop learning. It's there for life, and hopefully only improves with time-faster for some than others. We cannot be part of human society without it, we cannot share our intelligent ideas. Then there's math: we learn math after we have learned language and logical thinking, we take classes in school without which we would simply not learn math, math is not something that anyone can realistically advance through on their own in a short amount of time: it has to be taught, to willing students, and it builds upon itself. Once you stop taking math you stop taking math. See what I'm getting at here? You can forget math and still be intelligent, because math is learned. You can't just "forget" the rules of language, because you use them every day and will for the rest of your life. For just being part of human society, verbal skills are much more important and in my opinion come first. Writing, too, is important- people read books, gain knowledge, and then the next generation writes their own books to pass on the knowledge. People need to write history books, science books, even math books. That is how knowledge is stored and progresses. If the populace cannot read and write well, then how can we hope to effectively further knowledge? Language is the base that mathematical thought and scientific thought arise from and stand on. To ignore that importance is naive and a grave mistake.</p>
<p>Please do not think I mean to discredit mathematical ability. For the reasons others have stated above, math is obviously important. I merely felt the need to even out the argument a little. : D</p>
<p>^ Math is important. But grammar is different from verbal ability.</p>
<p>Verbal logic, complexity of thought, etc... all these concepts are different from grammar. Lets get that clear. </p>
<p>Also, Math skills are not just learned, they are also logical ways to train yourself to think. For instance, you saw the need to even out an argument, much as you would see an unbalanced equation and feel the need to add something to balance it out. I used to teach SAT, and my female students are the ones who improved the most in math after I showed them how academic society is biased against women. </p>
<p>The question I am asking is, is grammar as important as mathematical logic? When you study Asian languages, many people report an increase in logical ability. I have known some students to improve their LSAT score just from learning to read Chinese. It teaches you to think logically, making connections that you haven't learned before. </p>
<p>However, I am digressing. But there is no need to balance out this equation. This was an assumption built into the equation, that grammar skills are inherently as important as math skills. However, it is clearly not, when looking at IQ and the concept of improving living standards, and moving society into the new age based on intelligence. </p>
<p>That is just ridiculous to endorse something just because one is good at grammar. In that case, I should argue for being able to throw a baseball over 80MPH as being a requirement, or for being able to box skillfully as another requirement. See how this is purely driven by political motives?</p>
<p>Bottom line, keep it focused on intelligence. In the early 90's and before, grammar was tested by the TSWE on the SAT. Colleges didn't even consider looking at it. It was considered to be unimportant. Once everyone's grammar is improved, we are still left with intelligence, creativity, mathematical logic and complex problem solving as the ways to truly differentiate oneself from society. Grammar is just a tool, it is not a way to measure intelligence.</p>
<p>Er, well, okay-I assumed since this is an SAT board, that this question was essentially, "Which matters more, math or writing/CR score?" but disguised. But if you want to say that a knowledge of grammer vs. math is what this is about then by all means I completely agree, a knowledge of the rules of grammer has not a whole lot to do with intelligence. My point, though, which was overlooked-neither does the math sat! For goodness sakes, you have to look at the other side of it. Math sat does not equal intelligence. There's your equation.</p>
<p>And yes, I think that intelligence does help/is somewhat defined by or at least correlates to a person's verbal ability. I don't know that many people are going to vehemently disagree with that...and I'm sure that many of those who are good at math are arguing for "their" side as I am arguing for "mine". Really though it's about what is good for everyone-and I think too many math minded people discredit the importance of reading/writing-outside of the stupid SAT, which does not measure intelligence in either the math or verbal.</p>
<p>I hope what I originally mean to say is somewhat clearer now.
And I'm actually not too bad at math. ; D</p>
<p>^ Yes. It is absolutely clearer. Thanks for your thoughtful contribution too! ^^</p>
<p>Both math and grammar are learned skills. Math is more extensive, and in many ways more complex. That does not mean grammar is any less important.</p>
<p>And I'm not trying to discredit math, either--but without grammar this discussion couldn't be had, because no one would understand what the other was saying. There would be no logic to language.</p>