<p>One of the reason other IVY-like institutuions are developing is that the original IVYs are becoming more selective. So it is quite possible that down the road Harvard etc. will accept only 1 or 2 %, or even less, as the applicant pool gets larger, but the rejects will flock to other schools thus raising the admission standard there.</p>
<p>But as the other schools get more attractive to students, they too will grow more selective and desirable...drawing applicants away from Harvard and Yale and reducing their selectivity (it's like adding schools to the Ivy League...at a certain point, kids will be unable or unwilling to apply to every single one of them...most kids anyway)</p>
<p>I expect the selectivity of HYPMS to keep rising for quite a while, because there are still many international families who are not yet aware that there is full financial aid for internationals at those schools, and there are still only limited opportunities to take the SAT I in China.</p>
<p>i think that too...the Yale's and Harvard's percentages are gonna go down to 2% in the next 20 years. I gotta believe these schools will figure out a way to make less people apply. And as much as the other ivies will come up and be great schools everyone still dreams about going to harvard, yale, or princeton</p>
<p>Unfortunately for current high school graduates, they are experiencing the most competitive admissions period that will most likely ever be. </p>
<p>The number of echo-boomers (baby-boomer kids) will peak in another 2 years and then drop rapidly. Projections show that by 2020, the number of high school graduates will have dropped by around 20% in many States including the East, mid-atlantic and midwest. Only the West will see an increase because of the rapid growth in the hispanic population. Overall, the white high school population will have dropped by 20%. The number of asians will double but still represent a relatively small proportion of total students, while the hispanic student population will more than triple. </p>
<p>Even with some aggressive recruting among URMs, this means that most Ivies and top colleges will fight for a shrinking base of qualified students.</p>
<p>For those interested:
<a href="http://www.cic.edu/conferences_events/presidents/2007PI_Resources/2007PI_2020_Enrollment_Projections.xls%5B/url%5D">http://www.cic.edu/conferences_events/presidents/2007PI_Resources/2007PI_2020_Enrollment_Projections.xls</a></p>
<p>I disagree about a shrinking applicant base for the IVYs. If you look at the global trends, there is increasing awareness among international applicants about the quality of US colleges. The economic boom in Asian countries is creating a growing middle class that is looking everywhere for quality education for the kids. When we visit India, the only thing we hear about is education in the US. All of my cousins in India want to come here for their college! And, they are pretty good academically. What the IVys may have to worry about is a paying customer base in the future. A lot of internationals want gobs of financial aid, and so will the domestic URMs I think. IVYs should keep their huge endowments growing; they will have no problem getting to 2% selectivity and staying there!</p>
<p>You are mistaken if you believe that the Ivies and other highly competitive universities and colleges are going to increase the number of nonresident aliens undergraduates admitted to compensate for a drop in the domestic pool in the future. That is simply not going to happen. That number has been capped by most Ivies and institutions such as MIT and Stanford at around 8%. Few of the schools are truly need blind for non-residents. </p>
<p>At the undergraduate level there is simply no incentive for schools to add more internationals. They cost more, they don't contribute as alumni, most can't stay in the country. The situation is very dfferent at the graduate school level where international enrollment can exceed 50% at places such as MIT. These students largely pay for themselves through research and often stay in the US. </p>
<p>So, yes you may get to a 2% admission rate for internationals with a limited set of seats and a greater number of applicants. But for US applicants this is definitely the worst it will get.</p>
<p>
[quote]
That number has been capped by most Ivies and institutions such as MIT and Stanford at around 8%.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I'm not sure where you are getting your information, but MIT, which has a cap, has a higher cap than that, and Stanford is only just beginning to get into the business of need-blind admission for internationals. Harvard, Yale, and Princeton, which have all been in that business for longer, claim to have no cap, and I believe them. </p>
<p>As always, when I disagree with a factual statement by another poster, I am glad to see citations of any evidence you have for your factual statement. Links to Web sites with official statements of college policy would be most welcome in this thread.</p>
<p>MIT caps international admissions at 100 per year with about 70-80 matriculating according to the MIT CDS for the past 3 years, percentage of internationals enrolled has been 8.0% (2004), 7.4% (2005) and 7.5% (2006). MIT states that the number of international applicants exceeds 2,000 students for a 5% acceptance rate.</p>
<p>At Yale the numbers are 8.8% (06), 8.6% (05) and 8.1% (06) according to their CDS. Yale does not publish number of international applicants although the Yale Daily News states the number of applicants increased substantially in 2006. (While the percentage of admitted international students went down).</p>
<p>At Harvard according to their Fact Book the percentage of international students enrolled in the college has been 8.9% (06), 8.9% (05) and 8% (04). Harvard claims that number of international applicants jumped by 33% in 2007. We will see if that translates into a greater international enrollment this year. As a comparison point, the percentage of internationals in the graduate and professional schools at Harvard exceed 30%. (Except in the medical school).</p>
<p>At Princeton, the percentage of international students enrolled has increased nominally from 8.35% (2004) to 8.36% (2005) to 8.5% (2006).</p>
<p>It should be noted that all these schools include Canadians in their calculations. Canadians represent anywhere from 20-25% of all international undegrads at these schools, so you are really talking about a non North American enrollment of 5% to 7% with very little variation year to year.</p>
<p>Whether the Ivies have an explicit quota such as MIT or an implicit one (as reflected in the admitted numbers), is practically immaterial. The vast increase in international applications has not translated into increased spaces at these schools's colleges. In some cases such as Yale, the percentage of internationals admitted into the College has decreased substantially as the domestic pool has ballooned.</p>
<p>There's more Chinese than Canadians being accepted at Yale now, I'm pretty sure. And if there's really no cap on international students now at YHP, chances are one will be in the years to come, implicit or explicit, if international applications keep rising at present rate. Especially at schools that do not place as much of an emphasis on expanding their international outreach as Yale does. BTW, Dick Levin's rationale for building 2 more colleges is maintaining reasonable acceptance rates while accomodating more international students. At least that's what he told yDn.</p>
<p>Penn 10%
Princeton 8%
Columbia 7%
Harvard 3%
stanford 6.6%
MIT 8%</p>
<p>Why are we focusing on "caps" for International students? As I see it here are differing types:</p>
<p>International students/
Private School/public school
rural/inner city
athlete (choose the sport)/ musician/theatre/scientist/activist/
legacy/non legacy
URM/RMs/caucasians</p>
<p>Should we increase one? Decrease another? Let's add 25 URMs and 10 legacies and 5 intl students --It's still a zero sum equation at this point since there are still limited slots for each freshman class. So where do the 40 slots come from? The musicians? the Scientists? The average white kids? </p>
<p>It's an excruciating choosing process, don't you think? If you were J Brenzel, how would you handle it? To increase one (to meet a need and please a segment of the Yale community) means decreasing another (which will leave a hole and displease another segment) No easy answers, I'd say...</p>
<p>Here's the 2001 Harvard acceptance rate for internationals.</p>
<p>Foreign applicant rate went up to 9.1% from 8.7 last year.</p>
<p>Oooops! I meant 2007 not 2001.</p>
<p>OF COURSE THIS IS GONNA HAPPEN, people are not stupid, once they see that all their older friends who are like GODS of intelligence get rejected from a place that's not worth their presence (like Yale & MIT), people will not apply of course because they know they'll not get accepted, why bother then?</p>
<p>I hope this happens with all other "top-tier" universities (especially MIT) so that they would lose reputation and $ (trust me that's what most universities care for, I'm saying this from experience)</p>
<p>I don't expect Yale to lose prestige any time soon, and I don't expect Yale to lack for strong applicants this year. (I would say the same about MIT.)</p>
<p>^^ of course they won't, they've been around for a really long time, they'll not lose prestige because of such thing, but I have to say that what they do to their applicants is total bs</p>
<p>Hi RejectedFromMIT: funny to be resurrecting a thread from last season's admissions cycle. I have to say however, that I see the problem in a different light. From my personal interaction w/Yale admissions people, they speak plainly about how at pains they are to have to reject so many excellent applicants -- due to physical limitations of the university. Obviously, the university gains from having such an excellent pool -- that goes w/o saying. Even so, the University is looking to spend $600M (yes, that's six-hundred million -- more than most school's entire endowments) to expand two additional Residential Colleges -- all to bring in more students.</p>
<p>But back to the question about the "bs" that Yale is subjecting their applicants. I speak as an alumni interviewer but also a dad of a future wannabe Yalie (she's eleven but I've indoctrinated her well). What is Yale doing that you object to? Isn't it the market place? How is Yale SUPPOSED to handle the onslaught of applications? Cut back on recruiting? Not take the common app? Only recruit at private schools? Yale can't help the fact that it's become popular and now internationally sought after. </p>
<p>You need to state what a more "kinder" treatment Yale (or similar schools like yours, UPenn) can do. Your unsupported statement leaves me unsatisfied.</p>
<p>RejectedFromMIT, it's a painful process to put oneself up for evaluation and risk 'rejection' from faceless strangers, but it's how all college applications are, and in later life, when you apply for jobs, it will be similar. (So think about founding a company!) The best advice available is to apply to a big enough set of your target colleges that you are reasonably sure of getting at least one acceptance. (I look on this problem as a probability problem - at the top colleges,even if you are a strong candidate there's still considerable randomness to whether you will get in unless you have a hook, but at least each college outcome is an independent event, so apply to enough of the right sort for you qualifications, and you have a high probability of success.) Apply to a couple of safeties as well, and most important, don't fall in love with ANY school until AFTER you are admitted! [I have been brainwashing my children with this last piece of advice since they started high school.. :)]</p>
<p>^^^ that's exactly what I did after I got rejected from mit for freshman admission and applied to UPenn as a transfer, I looked at it as a probability problem, looked up the acceptance rates of colleges I'm applying to, multiplied them by each other, subtracted the result from 1, there you have the probability of yourself getting accepted to one university, mine was 68%, applied to 7 universities, only got accepted by penn.</p>