So this guy (and it’s a male) is afraid to confront the people who are offending him. Hmm.
But wait, Pizzagirl and zoosermom. I thought that students who were offended were supposed to confront the people who were offending them. All the other students did was call him names. Why didn’t he just confront them?
He’s afraid that he would be targeted. He could have just gone to their dorm rooms later, knocked on their doors, and tried to have a conversation, like the black woman who was offended by the two drunk frat boys’ costumes is supposed to do in your telling. But he didn’t. Why is it unreasonable to think that he would confront the students who offended him, but not unreasonable for the black woman to have to confront him if he offended her?
@mom2and Sorry I fail to see why anyone attending Yale can legitimately feel marginalized. These poor kids are being used and they fail to see it. The reaction by Yale should have been to expel a few of those kids.
Again, the fact that regrettably racism has not been eradicated from society and its effects are still felt today, does not mean that the protesters are correctly assessing the EC e-mail. When anyone questions whether the e-mail is being properly interpreted and categorized, the forum response too often takes the form of: But here’s a racist incident that happened, so how can you deny there’s racism? But no one is doubting racism still exists. The doubt is whether that e-mail can be called racist. If it’s merely insensitive or tone-deaf, then the student reaction is not only disproportionate but rude, immature, disruptive and damaging to all involved.
“There is nothing wrong with telling students, workers or anyone, be thoughtful about how your choices (whether in words or Halloween costumes) impact others. Concern is raised, however, when one group of people, regardless of whether they are the majority or minority, decides that they are the only ones that get to decide what is objectionable and limits what others can and can’t say. Supporting free speech does not mean you don’t simultaneously support respect for all, particularly those that feel marginalized.”
Yes. What’s most troublesome is the attitude of “someone disagrees with me – well, they must be removed from their position.” Really? Because heaven forbid there be someone employed by Yale that espouses things you don’t agree with? Isn’t the whole point of going to a college at that level to be exposed to new ideas, thoughts - even some that will make you uncomfortable? How are you going to handle economics class, politics class, art class?
I totally agree with the exception that what hurts should be decided by the hurt. Blackface doesn’t hurt me, I used think native american costumes were the wittiest. I know better now.
Igloo, I am not going to put words in anyone’s mouth and neither should you. It’s a strawman argument. If you can provide evidence that it was posted in this thread please do. In the common data set fromYale it’s clear that a large percentage of undergrads received need-based aid, and a fairly large average amount. This number of students well exceeds the number of Minority students in attendance. So it seems that the “charity cases” seem just as likely to be in another population.
Just to clarify, as I am translating the story from her, (and moreover, and just as important, we had discussions, as a family, numerous times, about how to handle p-word (rhymes with sticks). So, while it could be from the world of infinite options, a question that was posed about a logistical aspect of how she made it to New Haven, or an earnest inquiry of her other academic options—it was in all likelihood, not. There was no follow-up as to say, “let me clarify”, or “I wanted to know”, but rather, she said, it was followed by a silent smirk. She actually thinks the fellow was somehow at once trying to establish a pecking order, and an ill-conceived notion of making a rather provocative comment, and some how it attempting to come off as a flippant flirtation. Either way, wrong move…( while I don’t give the fellow a pass, I do know, young men, late at night, with some libations, make foolish decisions…)
Soon the students will learn that in the realm of “social justice,” alliances often shift. I’d refer them to an old song by the rock group ‘Ten Years After,’ whose signature song “I’d Love to Change the World” couldn’t be broadcast at college campuses today.
Maybe. I am quite sure it was to AA. If it is in another population does it make it better? At any rate, I don’t think they were referring to financial aid. They were referring to the boost AA get in admission.
But take that to an extreme Igloo. The Taliban will say that seeing women’s bodies are an outrage and object to it on the basis of their religion. Thus, they believe women’s bodies must be completely covered, and that women cannot drive, cannot have jobs outside the home because it may “hurt” men in their pursuit of their religion. Most here would agree that the rights of women to not wear a burka is stronger than the rights of someone who is offended. There are certainly things that might offend me as an older woman, that would not offend a young woman of color.
Is it really OK for someone to call someone a privileged a****** because they are white and studying? Is calling someone privileged on the basis of their skin color not hurtful? Yes, that kid has “white privilege” but may be more economically deprived than many of the demonstrators. It may hurt or anger that kid to be called that name. Should the library not be his safe space?
I explicitly said I took boolahi’s daughter at her word. I was referring to other poster’s suggesting it could never be asked without being interpreted as having poor social skills.
If I’m of Swedish descent do I get to demand that Yale’s Ezra Stiles College put an end to the stereotyping of Swedes as horn wearing, pillaging brutes at Medieval (K)night?
@Igloo - the university has already weighed the interests of free speech against perceived social or ethical responsibility and has concluded free speech takes priority - see my post #661. Whether the politics of the situation are permitted to override that stated priority remains to be seen.
No, not every time. It depends on severity. Why do you say “every time”? As far as I know this is the only time or the first time. We don’t have enough to call it every time. By calling it “every time”, you put subcontext that students are rigid ISIS rigid painting a far more negative picture. A bit sneaky, no? Again, I am not saying she should be removed. She does seem unfit to be a housemaster to me. Is it bad enough? For that, one would need more info.
The students at Mizzou who disagree with the protesters demands are already feeling threatened. They feel as though they have to keep their mouths shut.
Kristoff of the NY Times had a good editorial about all of it a few days ago. He acknowledged that while he is able to speak at conservative campuses, people like Condoleeza Rice were excluded from speaking at Rutgers.
Recently Dartmouth disallowed a Trump rally at their largest venue but are allowing a Hillary rally there.
Some are calling these college students neo-fascists, for shutting down any speech with which they disagree.
I am not sure this is saying anything. It is true in both countries, I am guessing Taliban dominated region women wear a burka. It’s their truth. In the US we don’t. And that’s our truth. We adress concerns in our community. If there’s an action that hurts only subset of population. that subset should be the one deciding that it hurts. Or are you going to tell them you shouldn’t be hurt by this? Isn’t that a bit like someone with a wooden leg (forgive me for this example) steps on someone’s toe and say it shouldn’t hurt, be my guest step on my toe? If the restriction is severe, I am sure there will be further discussion. With Halloween costumes? Are you saying you are so short on imagination you can’t dress up if blackface and feathers are banned? Actually, that kind of banning will help you get creative.
Sorry, Igloo you are correct it is not every time. Hyperbole on my part. In the last week of protests, however, the go-to position is that people should lose their jobs - from Missou to Yale to Claremont to Ithaca. It’s a bit of push, however, to say that I am portraying students in an ISIS subcontext? I am not sure I even understand what that means.
I said earlier that if EC and NC were not otherwise meeting the usual requirements of Masters they should be given the opportunity to change (since they just got into the position) and if unwilling to do so, should lose the positions. But certainly not due to one ill conceived email that seemed to have had no actual consequence. Students clearly did not read her email to suggest wearing a racist costume is a good idea because I have seen nothing to suggest there were any actual students wearing costumes that were racist.